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Exiting France when they feel like the freedoms of their software and their contributors are in danger seems like a perfectly reasonable response. GrapheneOS i

by elric 11mo ago

Exiting France when they feel like the freedoms of their software and their contributors are in danger seems like a perfectly reasonable response. GrapheneOS is an open source project. They hand out great software for free. They have no obligations to do this. And they certainly have no obligation to try to "negotiate" with obviously hostile governments. They have nothing to gain from this. > You don't burn down the house to kill a rat. I don't see how this analogy applies here. France is the house.

mmooss 11mo ago
This is the second time people responded to a post about GrapheneOS strategy with an argument about obligations. It's hard to even explain how vastly different those issues are. I didn't say anything about GrapheneOS's obligations; I talked about strategy and tactics to serve their goals. If you do want to talk about obligations - yes, we all have obligations to our communities, societies, etc., whether we like it or not, whether we deny it or not. GrapheneOS has obligations to the open source community, to freedom, to their users and developers, etc. Defining those obligations is very difficult and I won't try, but if none of us have those obligations then who does? There's nobody else coming to the rescue, there is no authority that will take care of it for you (like parents caring for irresponsible children) - it's just you and me.
- delichon 11mo ago
  > I talked about strategy and tactics to serve their goals. I am skeptical that there is any lesser step that they can take consistent with their goal of an uncompromised OS. Or that France would be satisfied with anything less than access. Security is not a side feature of GrapheneOS that they can compromise on, it's their core mission. It's like telling Frodo to see the sights in Mordor, but stay away from Mount Doom.
  - mmooss 11mo ago
    This is part of the overreaction I described. Nothing the government of France has said publicly indicates any interest in GOS, beyond one quote from one prosecutor. Has there been any direct communication between someone from the government and GOS regarding this issue? I get that people are outraged, etc. but it's actually damaging the cause. GOS looks like an unreliable partner.
- elric 11mo ago
  > I talked about strategy and tactics to serve their goals Putting their project or contributors at risk does not serve their goals. You seem to be expecting a lot from a bunch of volunteer contributors.

by elric 11mo ago

mmooss 11mo ago

This is the second time people responded to a post about GrapheneOS strategy with an argument about obligations. It's hard to even explain how vastly different those issues are. I didn't say anything about GrapheneOS's obligations; I talked about strategy and tactics to serve their goals. If you do want to talk about obligations - yes, we all have obligations to our communities, societies, etc., whether we like it or not, whether we deny it or not. GrapheneOS has obligations to the open source community, to freedom, to their users and developers, etc. Defining those obligations is very difficult and I won't try, but if none of us have those obligations then who does? There's nobody else coming to the rescue, there is no authority that will take care of it for you (like parents caring for irresponsible children) - it's just you and me.

delichon 11mo ago
> I talked about strategy and tactics to serve their goals. I am skeptical that there is any lesser step that they can take consistent with their goal of an uncompromised OS. Or that France would be satisfied with anything less than access. Security is not a side feature of GrapheneOS that they can compromise on, it's their core mission. It's like telling Frodo to see the sights in Mordor, but stay away from Mount Doom.
- mmooss 11mo ago
  This is part of the overreaction I described. Nothing the government of France has said publicly indicates any interest in GOS, beyond one quote from one prosecutor. Has there been any direct communication between someone from the government and GOS regarding this issue? I get that people are outraged, etc. but it's actually damaging the cause. GOS looks like an unreliable partner.
elric 11mo ago
> I talked about strategy and tactics to serve their goals Putting their project or contributors at risk does not serve their goals. You seem to be expecting a lot from a bunch of volunteer contributors.