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I'm sorry, but this kind of whining is what I've heard from professional victims my entire life. Talking about gentrifiers as invaders discredits the rest of t

by JPKab 14y ago

I'm sorry, but this kind of whining is what I've heard from professional victims my entire life. Talking about gentrifiers as invaders discredits the rest of the story in my eyes. As a former trailer park country boy who grew up in a mostly black county, I can attest to how blatantly (and without even realizing it) racist and insensitive whites who grew up in affluent suburbs can be. My best friend (since age 11) is a black male who dominates at his company. He has told me dozens of stories of dealing with these kinds of white boys. All the stories end the same way: He tells them, directly, in the same manner as if he were talking to a drunken buddy making an ass of himself at a bar, "what you just said was offensive/racist/etc. I'm gonna assume that you didn't realize it, but now you do. Cool?" He told me this has resulted in all of them apologizing with minimal awkwardness afterwards. Racism/racial insensitivity isn't an incurable disease. It's the result of attitudes and ignorance. If people would, instead of isolating people displaying these behaviors, instead approach them and talk to them and continue to treat them as friends, it would go a long way towards fixing things.

tptacek 14y ago
Get past his politics and read the direct factual assertions he is making about things that happened at that company. They're spectacularly bad.
- bri3d 14y ago
  Also, read more about the company: Kixeye. Not only is this terribly racist and sexist culture not just a figment of the author's politics - it's something the company is proud of: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/08/brogrammers_wanted_kixeye_s_hiring_strategy_caters_to_male_fantasies_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/08/... I really hope these jokers get sued out of existence. These kind of companies are the reason anti-discrimination laws should exist in the first place.
  - lotso 14y ago
    Just look at their YouTube video that is on their homepage www.kixeye.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5l-nnR4Bx0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5l-nnR4Bx0
    - comlag 14y ago
      He pulls out a rather large, black, dildo at 2:34... wtf?
      - danielweber 14y ago
        I think he's saying "I dare you to sue me." I hope someone takes him up on that dare.
  - danielweber 14y ago
    That actually made me think they are being unfair to Zynga. That's a pretty impressive level of douchebaggery.
apawloski 14y ago
I'm going to assume you don't realize that by calling him a "whiner," "professional victim," and by blaming him for not responding in a way you would have liked him to, that you're dangerously close to victim-blaming. If you didn't know, hopefully now you do. Cool? This seems like a vent piece. It's not his job to "cure" racism and he most certainly has the right to be upset. People don't like the way he's conveying that? Well that's fine -- I have the feeling that he doesn't hold their expectations in very high regard anyway
- MartinCron 14y ago
  dangerously close to victim-blaming The same way that Dallas is "dangerously close" to Texas.
MartinCron 14y ago
Maybe you didn't notice, but I just need to point out that you responded to an article about deplorable racism with the terms whining and professional victims. Really? You're telling someone who is being treated in a sub-human way to deal with this on the specific terms that are most comfortable to the in-power assholes who are being offensive? Not everyone can (or should) be exactly like your black friend.
luchak 14y ago
Don't fault people who have to put up with this shit, day in and day out, for not having limitless reserves of patience. His job isn't Racism Educator, so why should he have to act like it? I mean, yeah, ideally everyone is infinitely calm and can call these things out in a measured way every time they happen. But you're asking a lot from the victims here in order to spare the feelings of the aggressors. (Perhaps unintentional aggressors, but aggressors just the same.) What you're suggesting isn't easy. And what's to say that the person he calls out will take it well? Look at what happened at his workplace: they told him that the things he was complaining about were only jokes and that he was too sensitive. Look at what is happening in this thread: people are complaining about his tone, complaining about his word choice, and insinuating that he's making things up. That's not even going into the people who start out ostensibly agreeing before segueing into what sounds like their main point: how racist they think the author was being. So give the tone argument a rest. It's one of the most reliable distractions that people fall back on to avoid discussing racism, sexism, and all other kinds of oppression, and it's already taken over way too much of this thread.
king_jester 14y ago
> Talking about gentrifiers as invaders discredits the rest of the story in my eyes. Gentrifiers are economic invaders that dismantle the ability of the poor (particularly people of color) to live in their established communities. This is a known form of systemic oppression that disproportionately effects people of color, esp. black folk. > If people would, instead of isolating people displaying these behaviors, instead approach them and talk to them and continue to treat them as friends, it would go a long way towards fixing things. This whole blog post is about someone who ultimately does point this kind of behavior out to a manager only to have that manager totally ignore them. In non-professional contexts, calling people out has gotten folks attacked, beaten, harassed, maimed, and killed. The solution to ending this kind of oppression is not niceness and having those being fucked over bend over backwards. It should be noted that your friend as a higher up at a company is an exception to the rule, as black people are not well represented in management in the business world and often do not have the luxury of using authority to back up their call out.
potatolicious 14y ago
> "He tells them, directly, in the same manner as if he were talking to a drunken buddy making an ass of himself at a bar, "what you just said was offensive/racist/etc. I'm gonna assume that you didn't realize it, but now you do. Cool?" He told me this has resulted in all of them apologizing with minimal awkwardness afterwards." Your world of rainbows and unicorns sounds amazing, where all racism comes from under-informed people who can then be rightly fixed by prompt education! Clearly, oppressively racist institutions where people are powerless to correct the situation don't exist. Where they appear to exist, the victims just didn't assert themselves strongly enough. If they just calmly told their oppressors that they were being racist and offensive, they would stop! This totally explains away the entirety of slavery and apartheid. I'm just shocked that no one over hundreds of years just nicely stopped someone, explained how what they were doing is wrong, and had them stop! </snark> Seriously though, I'm glad that your experiences have been exclusively in places where people actually respond to criticism and education. And I mean that - facing the sort of horrific, powerless racism that many people do every day is terrible, and no one deserves to experience it from either end of the stick. Your experience is not generalizable to all instances of racism - it's not even generalizable to a minority of it.
- saraid216 14y ago
  And really, the only reason you aren't a Baptist is because you haven't given the Bible a real chance! All you have to do is read God's Word and let him into your heart and of course you'll believe exactly the same things I do to the letter even if they aren't actually found literally stated anywhere in the Bible.
unicityd 14y ago
It doesn't sound like the people at this company gave a damn about being racist or offensive. Also, it's a lot easier to correct someone when you out-rank them or have some stature within the company. You say your friend "dominates at his company"; the guy in this story was a peon. He's not a "professional victim", he just got shit on by a bunch of racists assholes.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
whalesalad 14y ago
While I am completely on the side of the original author here, I do agree that a lot of this requires direct and aggressive feedback. None of this passive-aggressive shit. That's why it keeps happening. Clearly this institution has huge problems and what they are doing is totally wrong. BUT... the author just sat there and took it. He internalized the issues and let them consume him, going home, smoking weed and collapsing inward on himself. The guy is gay, so it makes sense that he reacted passive aggressively. Females tend to behave this way, which is why a lot of workplace related sexist shit still goes on. Girls don't speak up, they're submissive. They don't make it known that what is happening is wrong, and so nothing is done about it. Obviously, in a perfect world, no one should have to speak up about shit like this! It's wrong! These guys that are acting like this are out of control. But... at the same time you cannot sit and take it and internalize it and think that magically things will get better. Stand up tall, and tell the person directly. Be clear. Be loud. I am so happy that your (black) friend does what he does. That is EXACTLY what you need to do. And yeah, it's unfortunate that the burdon is on the person being offended when what they are doing (simply existing with a different skin color or sexual orientation) is not wrong. But... that is the only way that things will change.
- erikpukinskis 14y ago
  the author just sat there and took it Quote: "I take a very deep breath through my nose. I tell him, rather I clarify for him that many things said by him and other people in the office has been racist, sexist, homophobic, transpho- “Whoa whoa whoa, those comments you’re hearing aren’t racist; they’re jokes!”" The guy is gay, so it makes sense that he reacted passive aggressively. That doesn't make any sense. Being interested in same-sex sex has nothing to do with passive aggression. Females tend to behave this way, which is why a lot of workplace related sexist shit still goes on. Women speaking up about workplace sexism is often a job-ender, if not a career-ender. That's not submissiveness, it's business acumen. Be clear. Be loud. That's not a complete solution. It's step 2. Step 1 is to educate enough men and white people that we can actually have a culture where clear, loud pronouncements of wrongdoing are actually heard and taken seriously, without career repercussions. And I'm assuming when you say "Be clear. Be loud." you're speaking to white men, right? Because women and people of color already have to do way too much education in their spare time, and it's the privileged who have the extra time and energy to pick up the slack and speak out about these issues, right?

by JPKab 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago

Get past his politics and read the direct factual assertions he is making about things that happened at that company. They're spectacularly bad.

bri3d 14y ago
Also, read more about the company: Kixeye. Not only is this terribly racist and sexist culture not just a figment of the author's politics - it's something the company is proud of: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/08/brogrammers_wanted_kixeye_s_hiring_strategy_caters_to_male_fantasies_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/08/... I really hope these jokers get sued out of existence. These kind of companies are the reason anti-discrimination laws should exist in the first place.
- lotso 14y ago
  Just look at their YouTube video that is on their homepage www.kixeye.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5l-nnR4Bx0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5l-nnR4Bx0
  - comlag 14y ago
    He pulls out a rather large, black, dildo at 2:34... wtf?
    - danielweber 14y ago
      I think he's saying "I dare you to sue me." I hope someone takes him up on that dare.
- danielweber 14y ago
  That actually made me think they are being unfair to Zynga. That's a pretty impressive level of douchebaggery.

apawloski 14y ago

I'm going to assume you don't realize that by calling him a "whiner," "professional victim," and by blaming him for not responding in a way you would have liked him to, that you're dangerously close to victim-blaming. If you didn't know, hopefully now you do. Cool? This seems like a vent piece. It's not his job to "cure" racism and he most certainly has the right to be upset. People don't like the way he's conveying that? Well that's fine -- I have the feeling that he doesn't hold their expectations in very high regard anyway

MartinCron 14y ago
dangerously close to victim-blaming The same way that Dallas is "dangerously close" to Texas.

MartinCron 14y ago

Maybe you didn't notice, but I just need to point out that you responded to an article about deplorable racism with the terms whining and professional victims. Really? You're telling someone who is being treated in a sub-human way to deal with this on the specific terms that are most comfortable to the in-power assholes who are being offensive? Not everyone can (or should) be exactly like your black friend.

luchak 14y ago

Don't fault people who have to put up with this shit, day in and day out, for not having limitless reserves of patience. His job isn't Racism Educator, so why should he have to act like it? I mean, yeah, ideally everyone is infinitely calm and can call these things out in a measured way every time they happen. But you're asking a lot from the victims here in order to spare the feelings of the aggressors. (Perhaps unintentional aggressors, but aggressors just the same.) What you're suggesting isn't easy. And what's to say that the person he calls out will take it well? Look at what happened at his workplace: they told him that the things he was complaining about were only jokes and that he was too sensitive. Look at what is happening in this thread: people are complaining about his tone, complaining about his word choice, and insinuating that he's making things up. That's not even going into the people who start out ostensibly agreeing before segueing into what sounds like their main point: how racist they think the author was being. So give the tone argument a rest. It's one of the most reliable distractions that people fall back on to avoid discussing racism, sexism, and all other kinds of oppression, and it's already taken over way too much of this thread.

king_jester 14y ago

> Talking about gentrifiers as invaders discredits the rest of the story in my eyes. Gentrifiers are economic invaders that dismantle the ability of the poor (particularly people of color) to live in their established communities. This is a known form of systemic oppression that disproportionately effects people of color, esp. black folk. > If people would, instead of isolating people displaying these behaviors, instead approach them and talk to them and continue to treat them as friends, it would go a long way towards fixing things. This whole blog post is about someone who ultimately does point this kind of behavior out to a manager only to have that manager totally ignore them. In non-professional contexts, calling people out has gotten folks attacked, beaten, harassed, maimed, and killed. The solution to ending this kind of oppression is not niceness and having those being fucked over bend over backwards. It should be noted that your friend as a higher up at a company is an exception to the rule, as black people are not well represented in management in the business world and often do not have the luxury of using authority to back up their call out.

potatolicious 14y ago

> "He tells them, directly, in the same manner as if he were talking to a drunken buddy making an ass of himself at a bar, "what you just said was offensive/racist/etc. I'm gonna assume that you didn't realize it, but now you do. Cool?" He told me this has resulted in all of them apologizing with minimal awkwardness afterwards." Your world of rainbows and unicorns sounds amazing, where all racism comes from under-informed people who can then be rightly fixed by prompt education! Clearly, oppressively racist institutions where people are powerless to correct the situation don't exist. Where they appear to exist, the victims just didn't assert themselves strongly enough. If they just calmly told their oppressors that they were being racist and offensive, they would stop! This totally explains away the entirety of slavery and apartheid. I'm just shocked that no one over hundreds of years just nicely stopped someone, explained how what they were doing is wrong, and had them stop! </snark> Seriously though, I'm glad that your experiences have been exclusively in places where people actually respond to criticism and education. And I mean that - facing the sort of horrific, powerless racism that many people do every day is terrible, and no one deserves to experience it from either end of the stick. Your experience is not generalizable to all instances of racism - it's not even generalizable to a minority of it.

saraid216 14y ago
And really, the only reason you aren't a Baptist is because you haven't given the Bible a real chance! All you have to do is read God's Word and let him into your heart and of course you'll believe exactly the same things I do to the letter even if they aren't actually found literally stated anywhere in the Bible.

unicityd 14y ago

It doesn't sound like the people at this company gave a damn about being racist or offensive. Also, it's a lot easier to correct someone when you out-rank them or have some stature within the company. You say your friend "dominates at his company"; the guy in this story was a peon. He's not a "professional victim", he just got shit on by a bunch of racists assholes.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

whalesalad 14y ago

While I am completely on the side of the original author here, I do agree that a lot of this requires direct and aggressive feedback. None of this passive-aggressive shit. That's why it keeps happening. Clearly this institution has huge problems and what they are doing is totally wrong. BUT... the author just sat there and took it. He internalized the issues and let them consume him, going home, smoking weed and collapsing inward on himself. The guy is gay, so it makes sense that he reacted passive aggressively. Females tend to behave this way, which is why a lot of workplace related sexist shit still goes on. Girls don't speak up, they're submissive. They don't make it known that what is happening is wrong, and so nothing is done about it. Obviously, in a perfect world, no one should have to speak up about shit like this! It's wrong! These guys that are acting like this are out of control. But... at the same time you cannot sit and take it and internalize it and think that magically things will get better. Stand up tall, and tell the person directly. Be clear. Be loud. I am so happy that your (black) friend does what he does. That is EXACTLY what you need to do. And yeah, it's unfortunate that the burdon is on the person being offended when what they are doing (simply existing with a different skin color or sexual orientation) is not wrong. But... that is the only way that things will change.

erikpukinskis 14y ago
the author just sat there and took it Quote: "I take a very deep breath through my nose. I tell him, rather I clarify for him that many things said by him and other people in the office has been racist, sexist, homophobic, transpho- “Whoa whoa whoa, those comments you’re hearing aren’t racist; they’re jokes!”" The guy is gay, so it makes sense that he reacted passive aggressively. That doesn't make any sense. Being interested in same-sex sex has nothing to do with passive aggression. Females tend to behave this way, which is why a lot of workplace related sexist shit still goes on. Women speaking up about workplace sexism is often a job-ender, if not a career-ender. That's not submissiveness, it's business acumen. Be clear. Be loud. That's not a complete solution. It's step 2. Step 1 is to educate enough men and white people that we can actually have a culture where clear, loud pronouncements of wrongdoing are actually heard and taken seriously, without career repercussions. And I'm assuming when you say "Be clear. Be loud." you're speaking to white men, right? Because women and people of color already have to do way too much education in their spare time, and it's the privileged who have the extra time and energy to pick up the slack and speak out about these issues, right?