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"We don’t even tolerate people brining up concerns of racism here." Translation: "we don't want to admit that we have a toxic, racist corporate culture so we're

by cstross 14y ago

"We don’t even tolerate people brining up concerns of racism here." Translation: "we don't want to admit that we have a toxic, racist corporate culture so we're going to blame the messenger." The emphasis here is on racism, but there's a ton of casual sexism -- and I'd be surprised if ageism wasn't present, too. This is, at best, a company where HR have taken their eye off the ball. More likely, there are serious institutional failings (and probable harrassment lawsuits coming down the pipe in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... if they don't do something about the corporate culture fast). Note: this is me trying to stay dispassionate and non-angry. If I was the author of this piece I'd be incandescent. Props to him for staying calm and documenting this stuff rather than simply walking out. Or exploding.

MartinCron 14y ago
If I was the author of this piece I'd be incandescent Reading this made me so angry... If I were a juror, I wouldn't convict the author for murdering the people in this post. Edited to add: No actual murder has happened, nor should any actual murder happen. This was an overstatement meant to reflect outrage at injustice.
- ghayes 14y ago
  That's a pretty unacceptable viewpoint, especially as you have heard only one man's side of the story.
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    It's hyperbole meant to express my profound outrage at an apparently outrageous situation. To be clear, I do not endorse murder but when reading the article, I empathized with the author in a way that made me feel murderously angry.
    - benihana 14y ago
      Get a grip. Murderous rage isn't typically an acceptable response to things that upset you.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - RivieraKid 14y ago
        Murderous rage = being very angry. Not wanting to literally kill someone.
        MartinCron 14y ago
        Metaphors are hard sometimes. I'm learning to be more cautious with them.
- bilbo0s 14y ago
  wtf? I think this company is not such a great place to work... if you are black. Having mentioned that... uh... MURDER??? We should try to keep in mind that this company really may be no worse than the average SF company full of people accustomed to getting their own way. Oftentimes, people just don't know they are being offensive. It is not malice, so much as the obliviousness that accompanies any privilege. These people DO NOT deserve to die. I personally don't think anyone does. People have a right to be disappointed here, but really, let's try to elevate the tone.
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    I totally agree that nobody deserves to die. I do not actually endorse murder, or any form of violent response to oppression. As I stated earlier, I was being hyperbolic. I had a strong emotional response to the article and I made a joke about it. I did not mean to debase the quality of the conversation here and I regret the callous way I expressed what I said.
    - Tichy 14y ago
      It's OK to make that kind of joke because nobody was murdered /sarcasm
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
lnanek2 14y ago
I doubt they have an HR department yet...
- stephengillie 14y ago
  About 1/3 of the way down... I ask if that’s the word he used verbatim, and Mike says yes. I say if he wants to say that to me I’ll take that comment and all the rest to HR because I’ve been documenting everything racist he’s said, and Mike nods and says “yeah” and “ok” like he understands or like he cares. And the "HR Dept" could be just 1-2 people.
humean 14y ago
From the OP: Also, at some point after this conversation took place, one of the women looked at my prized necklace and said “Hey, that looks like a calculator, is that a calculator?” I said “um no, it’s a necklace, it’s African, from Nairobi.” And she replies “Oh, huh…..well, it looks like a calculator.” Dumbwhite------ If this is an accurate recollection, the author is a seriously disturbed person who should not be in this or any other workplace. If this is not an accurate recollection... I'm not sure the conclusion is any different. Certainly there are workplace shootings where the perpetrator appears to have a very similar attitude - the Omar Thornton case, for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Distributors_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Distributors_shooting Kixeye is obviously a company with a corporate culture in which people vigorously insult each other in a typical young male style. A similar institution is the US military - at least at the enlisted level. Race relations in the military are and always have been excellent, so perhaps the hypothesis that coarse humor is the cause of racial hostility could use a little more exploring. I wouldn't want to work at a company like Kixeye, though. It's obviously an even worse fit for the OP. And that's not even to mention that this kind of office culture is actually illegal in our great nation, land of the free and home of the brave. This is irresponsible toward the investors, at least...
- nollidge 14y ago
  > If this is an accurate recollection, the author is a seriously disturbed person So you're saying that an overly defensive reaction to someone misunderstanding a fashion object means he's likely to shoot the place up? That a guy gets systematically discriminated against at the workplace, and you're worried he's too angry about it? And that he might get violent about it because one single other person one time did? And that the U.S. military, which features numerous official directives against racial discrimination, is an aptly analogous institution?
  - humean 14y ago
    Numerous of his comments reek of pure dehumanizing hate. He sounds exactly like Omar Thornton. Or Colin Ferguson. It actually wouldn't be difficult to suggest further examples. Furthermore, right below us on the thread, and also above us in a more allusive context, are comments encouraging him to react in an "incandescent," murderous rage.
paganel 14y ago
> Note: this is me trying to stay dispassionate and non-angry. If I was the author of this piece I'd be incandescent. Props to him for staying calm and documenting this stuff rather than simply walking out. Or exploding I couldn't even make it to the end, I think I just managed to read 80% of the whole piece, I'm pretty, pretty f.ing mad, and I've never even been to the States. A little OT: And while we're on this, I guess this is a moment as good as any to get it off my chest, that is to say that nasty s.it like this happens not only in the States, but here in (Eastern) Europe, too. I work in a small company, I'm IT, and around last week or so one of my (female, white) colleagues just out of the blue proffered somth. like "I'd kill all the gipsies, they're not human". I (white male, early 30s) at first tried to take it easy, made a little fun of her, to see if she was serious (she was), and then 10-15 minutes later I confronted her directly. The part that did it for me, at which even now, when I'm remembering the whole thing, makes me angry, it's the "they're not human" part. She is a really nice person otherwise, happily married, no children yet, but yet she said that nasty phrase as the most natural thing ever.
- tripzilch 14y ago
  A friend once advised me, to seriously and intently ask such people "what the fuck is wrong with you?" (and possibly shake your head a bit in a confused mildly disgusted manner). Then walk away, because whatever they have to say is not going to be worth your time. The one time I applied this, it netted me a rather sincere apology half an hour later, so I guess it has some merit in at least some of the situations. (note that I was not in the group being discriminated against, I don't think it'd be a good approach if I were)

by cstross 14y ago

MartinCron 14y ago

If I was the author of this piece I'd be incandescent Reading this made me so angry... If I were a juror, I wouldn't convict the author for murdering the people in this post. Edited to add: No actual murder has happened, nor should any actual murder happen. This was an overstatement meant to reflect outrage at injustice.

ghayes 14y ago
That's a pretty unacceptable viewpoint, especially as you have heard only one man's side of the story.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  It's hyperbole meant to express my profound outrage at an apparently outrageous situation. To be clear, I do not endorse murder but when reading the article, I empathized with the author in a way that made me feel murderously angry.
  - benihana 14y ago
    Get a grip. Murderous rage isn't typically an acceptable response to things that upset you.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - RivieraKid 14y ago
      Murderous rage = being very angry. Not wanting to literally kill someone.
      - MartinCron 14y ago
        Metaphors are hard sometimes. I'm learning to be more cautious with them.
bilbo0s 14y ago
wtf? I think this company is not such a great place to work... if you are black. Having mentioned that... uh... MURDER??? We should try to keep in mind that this company really may be no worse than the average SF company full of people accustomed to getting their own way. Oftentimes, people just don't know they are being offensive. It is not malice, so much as the obliviousness that accompanies any privilege. These people DO NOT deserve to die. I personally don't think anyone does. People have a right to be disappointed here, but really, let's try to elevate the tone.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  I totally agree that nobody deserves to die. I do not actually endorse murder, or any form of violent response to oppression. As I stated earlier, I was being hyperbolic. I had a strong emotional response to the article and I made a joke about it. I did not mean to debase the quality of the conversation here and I regret the callous way I expressed what I said.
  - Tichy 14y ago
    It's OK to make that kind of joke because nobody was murdered /sarcasm
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

lnanek2 14y ago

I doubt they have an HR department yet...

stephengillie 14y ago
About 1/3 of the way down... I ask if that’s the word he used verbatim, and Mike says yes. I say if he wants to say that to me I’ll take that comment and all the rest to HR because I’ve been documenting everything racist he’s said, and Mike nods and says “yeah” and “ok” like he understands or like he cares. And the "HR Dept" could be just 1-2 people.

humean 14y ago

From the OP: Also, at some point after this conversation took place, one of the women looked at my prized necklace and said “Hey, that looks like a calculator, is that a calculator?” I said “um no, it’s a necklace, it’s African, from Nairobi.” And she replies “Oh, huh…..well, it looks like a calculator.” Dumbwhite------ If this is an accurate recollection, the author is a seriously disturbed person who should not be in this or any other workplace. If this is not an accurate recollection... I'm not sure the conclusion is any different. Certainly there are workplace shootings where the perpetrator appears to have a very similar attitude - the Omar Thornton case, for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Distributors_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Distributors_shooting Kixeye is obviously a company with a corporate culture in which people vigorously insult each other in a typical young male style. A similar institution is the US military - at least at the enlisted level. Race relations in the military are and always have been excellent, so perhaps the hypothesis that coarse humor is the cause of racial hostility could use a little more exploring. I wouldn't want to work at a company like Kixeye, though. It's obviously an even worse fit for the OP. And that's not even to mention that this kind of office culture is actually illegal in our great nation, land of the free and home of the brave. This is irresponsible toward the investors, at least...

nollidge 14y ago
> If this is an accurate recollection, the author is a seriously disturbed person So you're saying that an overly defensive reaction to someone misunderstanding a fashion object means he's likely to shoot the place up? That a guy gets systematically discriminated against at the workplace, and you're worried he's too angry about it? And that he might get violent about it because one single other person one time did? And that the U.S. military, which features numerous official directives against racial discrimination, is an aptly analogous institution?
- humean 14y ago
  Numerous of his comments reek of pure dehumanizing hate. He sounds exactly like Omar Thornton. Or Colin Ferguson. It actually wouldn't be difficult to suggest further examples. Furthermore, right below us on the thread, and also above us in a more allusive context, are comments encouraging him to react in an "incandescent," murderous rage.

paganel 14y ago

> Note: this is me trying to stay dispassionate and non-angry. If I was the author of this piece I'd be incandescent. Props to him for staying calm and documenting this stuff rather than simply walking out. Or exploding I couldn't even make it to the end, I think I just managed to read 80% of the whole piece, I'm pretty, pretty f.ing mad, and I've never even been to the States. A little OT: And while we're on this, I guess this is a moment as good as any to get it off my chest, that is to say that nasty s.it like this happens not only in the States, but here in (Eastern) Europe, too. I work in a small company, I'm IT, and around last week or so one of my (female, white) colleagues just out of the blue proffered somth. like "I'd kill all the gipsies, they're not human". I (white male, early 30s) at first tried to take it easy, made a little fun of her, to see if she was serious (she was), and then 10-15 minutes later I confronted her directly. The part that did it for me, at which even now, when I'm remembering the whole thing, makes me angry, it's the "they're not human" part. She is a really nice person otherwise, happily married, no children yet, but yet she said that nasty phrase as the most natural thing ever.

tripzilch 14y ago
A friend once advised me, to seriously and intently ask such people "what the fuck is wrong with you?" (and possibly shake your head a bit in a confused mildly disgusted manner). Then walk away, because whatever they have to say is not going to be worth your time. The one time I applied this, it netted me a rather sincere apology half an hour later, so I guess it has some merit in at least some of the situations. (note that I was not in the group being discriminated against, I don't think it'd be a good approach if I were)