5 ms·

> I sincerely wonder if the people who live there agree ... I wonder if voluntary unification is on the table One of the benefits of a free democratic society

by n4r9 11mo ago

> I sincerely wonder if the people who live there agree ... I wonder if voluntary unification is on the table One of the benefits of a free democratic society is that you can ask; and people vote according to their preferences. A recent study suggests ~13% of the public support unification with China: https://www.tpof.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/20250214-TPOF-Special-Report-Taiwanese-Preferences-on-Political-Future.pdf https://www.tpof.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/20250214-TPO... . Taiwan's politics are dominated by the KMT and DPP parties, both of which oppose unification. > I sure as hell wouldn't put up much fight if china tried to invade my country Perhaps you have an unusual opinion?

noduerme 11mo ago
>> Perhaps you have an unusual opinion? That or a remarkably flexible sense of morality, coupled with a supine nature and a total lack of balls.
- MangoToupe 11mo ago
  Let's not pretend it's ever moral to support the state you live under. You should support yourself and bide whatever state imposes itself on you.
  - mrguyorama 11mo ago
    It is usually morally correct to fight off literal tyrannical invasion, what are you on about? Are you seriously suggesting it wasn't moral for the French to fight the Nazis or the people of Afghanistan to fight off the Soviets and Americans? >You should support yourself and bide whatever state imposes itself on you. Pathetic. Might as well go back to feudalism with that attitude. It is not nationalism to want a sovereign nation that you have influence over, that's democracy.
    - MangoToupe 11mo ago
      Ok, so why do people not violently rise up against the us government? They clearly have never represented our values, and they use the pretense of sovereignty to act as if their behavior reflects our interest. > It is not nationalism to want a sovereign nation that you have influence over, that's democracy. So what's our excuse? Do we not have a democracy, or are we simply a contemptible people?
      - n4r9 11mo ago
        A lot of people believe that Trump represents their values. They might be dead wrong, but it's what they believe that counts.
  - laughing_man 11mo ago
    Ever? No. Whether or not it's moral to support the state under which you live depends entirely on the circumstances. In the best case the state is mostly an expression of the will of the nation, and if your country is invaded you support the state. But even if the state is parasitical, in the case of an invasion it's usually moral to support it.
MangoToupe 11mo ago
> Perhaps you have an unusual opinion? I live in the US. I think it's pretty obvious the PRC is more competent in every way than our own government is. And from what I've seen of the ROC parliament, it is also an embarrassment to their own people
- haspok 11mo ago
  > I live in the US. I think it's pretty obvious the PRC is more competent in every way than our own government is. Yes, and you wouldn't be able to express your political opinion (like you do here on HN or anywhere else) if you were living in China. People living in the US tend to overlook that minute detail.
  - MangoToupe 11mo ago
    > you wouldn't be able to express your political opinion (like you do here on HN or anywhere else) if you were living in China Being able to express our opinion doesn't mean much if nothing ever changes or improves
    - noduerme 11mo ago
      I'd call the Civil Rights Act an improvement.
- mitthrowaway2 11mo ago
  I'm willing to concede that the CCP may be more competent than the US government, but the Taiwanese government (despite their antics in parliament) ranks alongside Singapore and Norway in my top three most competent governments in the world. That's purely my own subjective opinion of course but I see no reason for the Taiwanese people to be embarrassed.
- n4r9 11mo ago
  If you live in the US, supporting a Chinese invasion is definitely unusual. > the PRC is more competent in every way I guess it depends what you mean by competent. Dictatorships can be frightfully competent at certain things, but that doesn't make them a good place to be. We're talking about a country that is genociding its own Uyghur ethnic group, represses Tibetan culture, disappears its own elite athletes, and has a horrific LGBTI record. The US is far from perfect, but has nothing on China in terms of nastiness. That's not even touching the biggest problem of dictatorship, which is what happens when Dear Leader takes a fall. I doubt Xi has much more than a decade of leadership in him, and I worry for the Chinese populace when he goes.

by n4r9 11mo ago

noduerme 11mo ago

>> Perhaps you have an unusual opinion? That or a remarkably flexible sense of morality, coupled with a supine nature and a total lack of balls.

MangoToupe 11mo ago
Let's not pretend it's ever moral to support the state you live under. You should support yourself and bide whatever state imposes itself on you.
- mrguyorama 11mo ago
  It is usually morally correct to fight off literal tyrannical invasion, what are you on about? Are you seriously suggesting it wasn't moral for the French to fight the Nazis or the people of Afghanistan to fight off the Soviets and Americans? >You should support yourself and bide whatever state imposes itself on you. Pathetic. Might as well go back to feudalism with that attitude. It is not nationalism to want a sovereign nation that you have influence over, that's democracy.
  - MangoToupe 11mo ago
    Ok, so why do people not violently rise up against the us government? They clearly have never represented our values, and they use the pretense of sovereignty to act as if their behavior reflects our interest. > It is not nationalism to want a sovereign nation that you have influence over, that's democracy. So what's our excuse? Do we not have a democracy, or are we simply a contemptible people?
    - n4r9 11mo ago
      A lot of people believe that Trump represents their values. They might be dead wrong, but it's what they believe that counts.
- laughing_man 11mo ago
  Ever? No. Whether or not it's moral to support the state under which you live depends entirely on the circumstances. In the best case the state is mostly an expression of the will of the nation, and if your country is invaded you support the state. But even if the state is parasitical, in the case of an invasion it's usually moral to support it.

MangoToupe 11mo ago

> Perhaps you have an unusual opinion? I live in the US. I think it's pretty obvious the PRC is more competent in every way than our own government is. And from what I've seen of the ROC parliament, it is also an embarrassment to their own people

haspok 11mo ago
> I live in the US. I think it's pretty obvious the PRC is more competent in every way than our own government is. Yes, and you wouldn't be able to express your political opinion (like you do here on HN or anywhere else) if you were living in China. People living in the US tend to overlook that minute detail.
- MangoToupe 11mo ago
  > you wouldn't be able to express your political opinion (like you do here on HN or anywhere else) if you were living in China Being able to express our opinion doesn't mean much if nothing ever changes or improves
  - noduerme 11mo ago
    I'd call the Civil Rights Act an improvement.
mitthrowaway2 11mo ago
I'm willing to concede that the CCP may be more competent than the US government, but the Taiwanese government (despite their antics in parliament) ranks alongside Singapore and Norway in my top three most competent governments in the world. That's purely my own subjective opinion of course but I see no reason for the Taiwanese people to be embarrassed.
n4r9 11mo ago
If you live in the US, supporting a Chinese invasion is definitely unusual. > the PRC is more competent in every way I guess it depends what you mean by competent. Dictatorships can be frightfully competent at certain things, but that doesn't make them a good place to be. We're talking about a country that is genociding its own Uyghur ethnic group, represses Tibetan culture, disappears its own elite athletes, and has a horrific LGBTI record. The US is far from perfect, but has nothing on China in terms of nastiness. That's not even touching the biggest problem of dictatorship, which is what happens when Dear Leader takes a fall. I doubt Xi has much more than a decade of leadership in him, and I worry for the Chinese populace when he goes.