6 ms·

I didn't downvote, but it's naive to the point of irresponsibility not to assume and prepare for LLMs being weaponized in the exact way as social media as you a

by gdulli 11mo ago

I didn't downvote, but it's naive to the point of irresponsibility not to assume and prepare for LLMs being weaponized in the exact way as social media as you alluded to. It's not like human nature or the nature of capitalism has changed recently.

FloorEgg 11mo ago
Are you saying that hope is naive and irresponsible?
- intended 11mo ago
  What you are hoping for will not occur. Do hope. But hoping for a unicorn is magic thinking. For other people, they can either count this as a reason to despair, or figure out a way to get to the next best option. The world sucks, so what ? In the end all problems get solved if you can figure them out.
  - FloorEgg 11mo ago
    For decades I have continuously studied physics, chemistry, biology, psychology, history, management science, market research, economics, religion, finance, and computer science among many other things. I study for 4-5 hours on average every day, and the rest of my working hours are spent practicing my craft. The reason I say this is that blind hope and informed hope are two different things. Media has always relied on novel fear to attract attention. It's always "dramatized"; sacrificing truth for what sells. However AI is like electricity or computation. People make it to get things done. Some of those things may be media, but it will also be applied to everything else people want to get done. The thing about tools is that if they don't work people won't keep using them. And the thing about lies is that they don't work. For all of human history people have become more informed and capable. More conveniences, more capabilities, more ideas, more access to knowledge, tools, etc. What makes you think that AI is somehow different than all other human invention that came before it? It's just more automation. Bad people will automate bad things, good people will automate good things. I don't have a problem with people pointing out risks and wanting to mitigate them, but I do have a problem with invalid presuppositions that the future will be worse than the past. So no, I don't think I'm hoping for a unicorn. I think I'm hoping that my intuition for how the universe works is close enough, and the persistent pessimism that seems to permeate from social media is wrong.
    - defrost 11mo ago
      Speaking as someone who has also spent decades both studying and applying STEM and social sciences my commentary is this: > The thing about tools is that if they don't work people won't use them. People will and do use tools that don't work. Over time fewer people use bad tools as word spreads. Often "new" bad tools have a halo uptake of popularity. > And the thing about lies is that they don't work. History tells us that lies work in the short term, and that is sufficient to force bad decisions that have long shadows.
      - FloorEgg 11mo ago
        > The thing about tools is that if they don't work people won't use them. My bad. I meant won't keep using them. > History tells us that lies work in the short term, and that is sufficient to force bad decisions that have long shadows. What do you mean by "work"? It sounds like you are implying that a lie "works" by convincing people to believe it? I meant a lie doesn't work in that if you follow the lie you will make incorrect predictions about the future. If someone acts on a lie which results in a bad decision with a "long shadow" then wouldn't that mean acting out the lie didn't work?
        defrost 11mo ago
        Lies work in the sense that they can persuade large groups of people to take courses of action based on their beleif in those lies. They are used by bad actors to, say, win elections and then destroy systemic safeguards and monitoring mechanisms that work to spotlight bad actions and limit damage. There are also lies, such as a common belief in Wagyl, that draw people to together and act in unison as a community to help the less fortunate, preserve the environment and common resources, and other things not generally perceived as destructive.
        FloorEgg 11mo ago
        > Lies work in the sense that they can persuade large groups of people to take courses of action based on their beleif in those lies. I don't disagree with this. It's reasonable to assume I was talking about that type of "work", but I wasn't. > There are also lies, such as a common belief in Wagyl, that draw people to together and act in unison as a community to help the less fortunate, preserve the environment and common resources, and other things not generally perceived as destructive. I am not familiar with this specific culture but I totally get your point. Most religion works like this. I would just consider that the virtues and principles embedded within the stories and traditions are the actual truths that work, and that Wagyl and the specifics of the stories are just along for the ride. The reason I believe this is because other religions with similar virtues and values will have similar outcomes even though the lie they believe in is completely different. I said that lies destroy, and that wasn't right. Sometimes they do, but as you have pointed out, often they don't.
- gdulli 11mo ago
  Hoping that the tech giants will put truth over profit is folly. Hoping that audiences will reject this is viable.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - FloorEgg 11mo ago
    > Hoping that the tech giants will put truth over profit is folly. I never said that though? > Hoping that audiences will reject this is viable. I have no clue what you mean. What is "this" refering to?

by gdulli 11mo ago

FloorEgg 11mo ago

Are you saying that hope is naive and irresponsible?

intended 11mo ago
What you are hoping for will not occur. Do hope. But hoping for a unicorn is magic thinking. For other people, they can either count this as a reason to despair, or figure out a way to get to the next best option. The world sucks, so what ? In the end all problems get solved if you can figure them out.
- FloorEgg 11mo ago
  For decades I have continuously studied physics, chemistry, biology, psychology, history, management science, market research, economics, religion, finance, and computer science among many other things. I study for 4-5 hours on average every day, and the rest of my working hours are spent practicing my craft. The reason I say this is that blind hope and informed hope are two different things. Media has always relied on novel fear to attract attention. It's always "dramatized"; sacrificing truth for what sells. However AI is like electricity or computation. People make it to get things done. Some of those things may be media, but it will also be applied to everything else people want to get done. The thing about tools is that if they don't work people won't keep using them. And the thing about lies is that they don't work. For all of human history people have become more informed and capable. More conveniences, more capabilities, more ideas, more access to knowledge, tools, etc. What makes you think that AI is somehow different than all other human invention that came before it? It's just more automation. Bad people will automate bad things, good people will automate good things. I don't have a problem with people pointing out risks and wanting to mitigate them, but I do have a problem with invalid presuppositions that the future will be worse than the past. So no, I don't think I'm hoping for a unicorn. I think I'm hoping that my intuition for how the universe works is close enough, and the persistent pessimism that seems to permeate from social media is wrong.
  - defrost 11mo ago
    Speaking as someone who has also spent decades both studying and applying STEM and social sciences my commentary is this: > The thing about tools is that if they don't work people won't use them. People will and do use tools that don't work. Over time fewer people use bad tools as word spreads. Often "new" bad tools have a halo uptake of popularity. > And the thing about lies is that they don't work. History tells us that lies work in the short term, and that is sufficient to force bad decisions that have long shadows.
    - FloorEgg 11mo ago
      > The thing about tools is that if they don't work people won't use them. My bad. I meant won't keep using them. > History tells us that lies work in the short term, and that is sufficient to force bad decisions that have long shadows. What do you mean by "work"? It sounds like you are implying that a lie "works" by convincing people to believe it? I meant a lie doesn't work in that if you follow the lie you will make incorrect predictions about the future. If someone acts on a lie which results in a bad decision with a "long shadow" then wouldn't that mean acting out the lie didn't work?
      - defrost 11mo ago
        Lies work in the sense that they can persuade large groups of people to take courses of action based on their beleif in those lies. They are used by bad actors to, say, win elections and then destroy systemic safeguards and monitoring mechanisms that work to spotlight bad actions and limit damage. There are also lies, such as a common belief in Wagyl, that draw people to together and act in unison as a community to help the less fortunate, preserve the environment and common resources, and other things not generally perceived as destructive.
        FloorEgg 11mo ago
        > Lies work in the sense that they can persuade large groups of people to take courses of action based on their beleif in those lies. I don't disagree with this. It's reasonable to assume I was talking about that type of "work", but I wasn't. > There are also lies, such as a common belief in Wagyl, that draw people to together and act in unison as a community to help the less fortunate, preserve the environment and common resources, and other things not generally perceived as destructive. I am not familiar with this specific culture but I totally get your point. Most religion works like this. I would just consider that the virtues and principles embedded within the stories and traditions are the actual truths that work, and that Wagyl and the specifics of the stories are just along for the ride. The reason I believe this is because other religions with similar virtues and values will have similar outcomes even though the lie they believe in is completely different. I said that lies destroy, and that wasn't right. Sometimes they do, but as you have pointed out, often they don't.
gdulli 11mo ago
Hoping that the tech giants will put truth over profit is folly. Hoping that audiences will reject this is viable.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- FloorEgg 11mo ago
  > Hoping that the tech giants will put truth over profit is folly. I never said that though? > Hoping that audiences will reject this is viable. I have no clue what you mean. What is "this" refering to?