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Why is public transit so expensive in general? In Europe, if you're a group of 2-5 adults with no discounts, it's often cheaper to take a car than to use the b

Why is public transit so expensive in general? In Europe, if you're a group of 2-5 adults with no discounts, it's often cheaper to take a car than to use the bus / train. That makes no sense.

mcdonje 11mo ago
Because you're paying humans' wages to operate the system, and there isn't a carbon tax.
- sltkr 11mo ago
  Excise taxes on fuel already exceed carbon taxes. At the IMF suggested rate of €65 per tonne of CO2, a liter of fuel that produces 2.3 kg CO2 would cost €0.15 per liter, while European excise taxes on fuel average around €0.55.
  - mcdonje 11mo ago
    Very strange comment. You're over-generalizing a comparison of one proposed carbon tax to one excise tax.
soloridindan 11mo ago
Not only that, it can be infeasible for a single-passenger as well. There's only the train available here, and I need to be ~400km away every couple months. Most of the time tickets are ~40€, but sometimes they're 200€+ one-way, even if you book weeks in advance. It makes it infeasible to plan anything when prices may fluctuate so wildly. As a comparison, my 2009 diesel gets me there at around 4,7L/100km, but let's round it to 5, at average cost of fuel 1,65€/L that's 33€, for a single passenger, and I can leave whenever I want, have any sort of holdup and just go.
skylurk 11mo ago
> if you're a group of 2-5 adults even a taxi or ride share may come out cheaper than public transit too. Part of it is public transit like trains and trams have to maintain their own infrastructure. Not sure about buses, I would guess these are way cheaper to operate. In many parts of the world they are cheap, private and profitable, e.g. https://old.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comments/1l5pt2a/detroit_themed_bus_in_kenya/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comments/1l5pt2a/detroit_th...
beAbU 11mo ago
Irish Rail wants to charge me €15-€20 for a single trip from Wexford to Dublin, a 150km trip that would cost roughly €5 when taking my EV and can be an hour quicker with nice traffic. Buses aren't much better. Sure, parking and wear/tear on my car needs to be factored in, but the moment I'm not travelling alone, the public transport costs are completely blown out the water. A trip to the big city for me and my wife will be €60 when taking the train, and with the car it will be about €20-€30 depending on where I park. It's crazy frustrating, because I would LOVE to take public transport more.

Why is public transit so expensive in general? In Europe, if you're a group of 2-5 adults with no discounts, it's often cheaper to take a car than to use the bus / train. That makes no sense.

mcdonje 11mo ago

Because you're paying humans' wages to operate the system, and there isn't a carbon tax.

sltkr 11mo ago
Excise taxes on fuel already exceed carbon taxes. At the IMF suggested rate of €65 per tonne of CO2, a liter of fuel that produces 2.3 kg CO2 would cost €0.15 per liter, while European excise taxes on fuel average around €0.55.
- mcdonje 11mo ago
  Very strange comment. You're over-generalizing a comparison of one proposed carbon tax to one excise tax.

soloridindan 11mo ago

Not only that, it can be infeasible for a single-passenger as well. There's only the train available here, and I need to be ~400km away every couple months. Most of the time tickets are ~40€, but sometimes they're 200€+ one-way, even if you book weeks in advance. It makes it infeasible to plan anything when prices may fluctuate so wildly. As a comparison, my 2009 diesel gets me there at around 4,7L/100km, but let's round it to 5, at average cost of fuel 1,65€/L that's 33€, for a single passenger, and I can leave whenever I want, have any sort of holdup and just go.

skylurk 11mo ago

> if you're a group of 2-5 adults even a taxi or ride share may come out cheaper than public transit too. Part of it is public transit like trains and trams have to maintain their own infrastructure. Not sure about buses, I would guess these are way cheaper to operate. In many parts of the world they are cheap, private and profitable, e.g. https://old.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comments/1l5pt2a/detroit_themed_bus_in_kenya/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comments/1l5pt2a/detroit_th...

beAbU 11mo ago

Irish Rail wants to charge me €15-€20 for a single trip from Wexford to Dublin, a 150km trip that would cost roughly €5 when taking my EV and can be an hour quicker with nice traffic. Buses aren't much better. Sure, parking and wear/tear on my car needs to be factored in, but the moment I'm not travelling alone, the public transport costs are completely blown out the water. A trip to the big city for me and my wife will be €60 when taking the train, and with the car it will be about €20-€30 depending on where I park. It's crazy frustrating, because I would LOVE to take public transport more.