5 ms·

It is not remotely a failure. As a vessel for achieving project 2025 goals, the clear purpose of DOGE, it was successful. It's just that the successes it achiev

by denkmoon 11mo ago

It is not remotely a failure. As a vessel for achieving project 2025 goals, the clear purpose of DOGE, it was successful. It's just that the successes it achieved are reprehensible.

gmd63 11mo ago
That was not the clear purpose of DOGE. The Trump campaign deliberately distanced itself from Project 2025. If they had been honest about their intent to enact Project 2025 to voters, they would have lost.
- FireBeyond 11mo ago
  It was the clear purpose. It just wasn't the openly described purpose.
  - gmd63 11mo ago
    No, it wasn't clear. I know several Trump voters who either didn't know Project 2025 existed or believed the lies that it was a liberal hoax. To anyone paying an ounce of attention, yeah it might have been clear.
    - JojoFatsani 11mo ago
      Ignorant voters do not excuse the actions of elected officials
      - gmd63 11mo ago
        I'm not excusing elected officials. I would go further and blame Vivek Ramaswamy for playing a huge part in pitching the failed DOGE. I'm just pointing out that the Trump admin deliberately lied about its connection to Project 2025, which made DOGE's connection unclear to people who consume Fox News etc. People are downing my comment for suggesting that many people who don't take the internet straight into their veins every day might have had a hard time connecting the dots between DOGE and Project 2025.
        phantasmish 11mo ago
        All they had to do was skim any decent daily, weekly, or monthly newspaper or news magazine in 2024. Folks whose only news sources are Facebook shares and Fox News are simply stupid. The reason they don’t know WTF is going on may be due to their news sources, but they chose those. That’s a really stupid thing to do.
        lotsoweiners 11mo ago
        > Folks whose only news sources are Facebook shares and Fox News are simply stupid. Maybe or maybe not. What I do know is that they are large in number and a political opponent should realize this and strategize accordingly.
        phantasmish 11mo ago
        Well, sure. There’s most of a century of science behind the finding that votes aren’t really made or motivated by the things a democratic idealist might hope they are, nor do most voters have half a clue what’s going on or how anything works. All modern campaigns assume large segments of the electorate are very dumb. Because they in-fact are. You’ll get your ass handed to you by a less-idealistic campaign every time if you pretend things are otherwise. The trouble now is the huge private media empire capitalizing on that fact was deliberately built over a period of 40+ years and is now entrenched. Countering that is gonna be hard and take generations. Everyone alive now is going to have to suffer for decades before it maybe gets better.
        estearum 11mo ago
        I think at some point people need to take some accountability for their own information ecosystem. It really is a Catch-22 though, since the imperative and ability to do that is itself derivative of the information ecosystem. Which is why I blame, more than anyone else, the actual smart people (largely cynical, craven, and greedy) who didn’t through their weight against this stuff when it could’ve mattered.
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    - phantasmish 11mo ago
      I know people who didn’t know the government had shut down until more than two weeks into it (and on discovering it were like “oh shit this might affect us!” because their whole lifestyle depends on money from the government). The same people didn’t know the east wing had been torn down until a couple weeks after it happened. In both cases they only found out when my wife told them. They pay attention to lots of “news” but it’s AI videos of mass crimes and viral “look how bad democrats are” garbage. That people are dense motherfuckers (can we stop sugar coating how stupid these people are if they’re surprised about any of these things? I mean dumb as a bag of hammers kinds of dumb, dimmest bulb in a box of broken bulbs, that level of dumb) doesn’t mean this wasn’t clear. It is 100% these morons’ own fault they’re surprised.
      - terminalshort 11mo ago
        The east wing and the shutdown aren't remotely on the same level, though. I barely knew it existed before the whole controversy.
      - JKCalhoun 11mo ago
        I think you're being too harsh. "Dense motherfuckers"? My own sense is that these people are willfully ignorant. That is, they seek to find confirmation of what they already believe. Kind of human nature, really. It's sad that there is a complete infrastructure that spouts what these people want to hear, make lots of money doing so.
        phantasmish 11mo ago
        I’m done with treating willful morons nicely. The last year has turned me from a Vonnegut to a Twain, if you will. A good chunk of My Fellow Americans are just awful, and after 25ish years of serious political awareness & attention and watching what’s happened over that time my benefit-of-the-doubt tanks are dry, having been siphoned at high rates continuously that entire time. Probably I was myself stupid ever to have thought better of these dangerous dipshits. It’s not like I wasn’t pretty familiar with history, but somehow, it took watching people be extremely dumb and never learn over a long period to break through what I suppose was some kind of savior-complex ego thing that made me want to be the kind of person who believed people were mostly pretty good. How embarrassing. They’re dense motherfuckers, and that’s the generous take. They’re a black hole of stupid. That’s the level of density we’re dealing with. And that’s just the America I’ll be living with until I die. One that’s been trashed so thoroughly by the idiot brigade that hope for actual improvement is gone for, best case, several more decades, which will amount to the rest of my life. They’ve wrecked shit out beyond the horizon of my plausible lifespan, in all likelihood. They’ve been continuously working toward doing this my whole life. No, I’m absolutely not being too harsh.
    - FireBeyond 11mo ago
      I think you're missing the point: it was the purpose all along, they just didn't state that. "Several Trump voters"? And, and not just Trump voters - the most common search phrase on Google on 11/20/2024? "Did Biden drop out?" You have far more faith in an educated electorate than I.
    - nobody9999 11mo ago
      >No, it wasn't clear. I know several Trump voters who either didn't know Project 2025 existed or believed the lies that it was a liberal hoax. >To anyone paying an ounce of attention, yeah it might have been clear. Many, many folks were out there long before the election saying (both as promises -- from the Trumpers and warnings -- from pretty much everyone else) that Project 2025 would be the blueprint for a new Trump administration. That some folks either ignored or disbelieved it doesn't make it "unclear." Rather, it means that a lot of people believed the lies. Which says more about those who believed such lies than it does about everyone else. And to put a fine point on it, what more could others have done to disabuse those folks of the lies told them by the Trump campaign? Seriously.
  - mmmm2 11mo ago
    Agreed. Anyone with a modicum of common sense knew this was the plan all along. It's not like it was hard to find people saying this before the election.
- FranzFerdiNaN 11mo ago
  > The Trump campaign deliberately distanced itself from Project 2025. The Trump campaign lied. Just like Trump mostly lies any time his lips move.
arcastroe 11mo ago
For those less informed, such as myself. Could you provide a quick summary of those project 2025 successes achieved by DOGE?
- estearum 11mo ago
  https://www.project2025.observer/en https://www.project2025.observer/en DOGE was the bludgeon that crippled most of the targets on this list. Not the only one, but a major player.
- jimmydddd 11mo ago
  They want to to shut down large portions of the government. For example, they want to completely eliminate all public education, not make it more efficient.

It is not remotely a failure. As a vessel for achieving project 2025 goals, the clear purpose of DOGE, it was successful. It's just that the successes it achieved are reprehensible.

gmd63 11mo ago

That was not the clear purpose of DOGE. The Trump campaign deliberately distanced itself from Project 2025. If they had been honest about their intent to enact Project 2025 to voters, they would have lost.

FireBeyond 11mo ago
It was the clear purpose. It just wasn't the openly described purpose.
- gmd63 11mo ago
  No, it wasn't clear. I know several Trump voters who either didn't know Project 2025 existed or believed the lies that it was a liberal hoax. To anyone paying an ounce of attention, yeah it might have been clear.
  - JojoFatsani 11mo ago
    Ignorant voters do not excuse the actions of elected officials
    - gmd63 11mo ago
      I'm not excusing elected officials. I would go further and blame Vivek Ramaswamy for playing a huge part in pitching the failed DOGE. I'm just pointing out that the Trump admin deliberately lied about its connection to Project 2025, which made DOGE's connection unclear to people who consume Fox News etc. People are downing my comment for suggesting that many people who don't take the internet straight into their veins every day might have had a hard time connecting the dots between DOGE and Project 2025.
      - phantasmish 11mo ago
        All they had to do was skim any decent daily, weekly, or monthly newspaper or news magazine in 2024. Folks whose only news sources are Facebook shares and Fox News are simply stupid. The reason they don’t know WTF is going on may be due to their news sources, but they chose those. That’s a really stupid thing to do.
        lotsoweiners 11mo ago
        > Folks whose only news sources are Facebook shares and Fox News are simply stupid. Maybe or maybe not. What I do know is that they are large in number and a political opponent should realize this and strategize accordingly.
        phantasmish 11mo ago
        Well, sure. There’s most of a century of science behind the finding that votes aren’t really made or motivated by the things a democratic idealist might hope they are, nor do most voters have half a clue what’s going on or how anything works. All modern campaigns assume large segments of the electorate are very dumb. Because they in-fact are. You’ll get your ass handed to you by a less-idealistic campaign every time if you pretend things are otherwise. The trouble now is the huge private media empire capitalizing on that fact was deliberately built over a period of 40+ years and is now entrenched. Countering that is gonna be hard and take generations. Everyone alive now is going to have to suffer for decades before it maybe gets better.
      - estearum 11mo ago
        I think at some point people need to take some accountability for their own information ecosystem. It really is a Catch-22 though, since the imperative and ability to do that is itself derivative of the information ecosystem. Which is why I blame, more than anyone else, the actual smart people (largely cynical, craven, and greedy) who didn’t through their weight against this stuff when it could’ve mattered.
      - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  - phantasmish 11mo ago
    I know people who didn’t know the government had shut down until more than two weeks into it (and on discovering it were like “oh shit this might affect us!” because their whole lifestyle depends on money from the government). The same people didn’t know the east wing had been torn down until a couple weeks after it happened. In both cases they only found out when my wife told them. They pay attention to lots of “news” but it’s AI videos of mass crimes and viral “look how bad democrats are” garbage. That people are dense motherfuckers (can we stop sugar coating how stupid these people are if they’re surprised about any of these things? I mean dumb as a bag of hammers kinds of dumb, dimmest bulb in a box of broken bulbs, that level of dumb) doesn’t mean this wasn’t clear. It is 100% these morons’ own fault they’re surprised.
    - terminalshort 11mo ago
      The east wing and the shutdown aren't remotely on the same level, though. I barely knew it existed before the whole controversy.
    - JKCalhoun 11mo ago
      I think you're being too harsh. "Dense motherfuckers"? My own sense is that these people are willfully ignorant. That is, they seek to find confirmation of what they already believe. Kind of human nature, really. It's sad that there is a complete infrastructure that spouts what these people want to hear, make lots of money doing so.
      - phantasmish 11mo ago
        I’m done with treating willful morons nicely. The last year has turned me from a Vonnegut to a Twain, if you will. A good chunk of My Fellow Americans are just awful, and after 25ish years of serious political awareness & attention and watching what’s happened over that time my benefit-of-the-doubt tanks are dry, having been siphoned at high rates continuously that entire time. Probably I was myself stupid ever to have thought better of these dangerous dipshits. It’s not like I wasn’t pretty familiar with history, but somehow, it took watching people be extremely dumb and never learn over a long period to break through what I suppose was some kind of savior-complex ego thing that made me want to be the kind of person who believed people were mostly pretty good. How embarrassing. They’re dense motherfuckers, and that’s the generous take. They’re a black hole of stupid. That’s the level of density we’re dealing with. And that’s just the America I’ll be living with until I die. One that’s been trashed so thoroughly by the idiot brigade that hope for actual improvement is gone for, best case, several more decades, which will amount to the rest of my life. They’ve wrecked shit out beyond the horizon of my plausible lifespan, in all likelihood. They’ve been continuously working toward doing this my whole life. No, I’m absolutely not being too harsh.
  - FireBeyond 11mo ago
    I think you're missing the point: it was the purpose all along, they just didn't state that. "Several Trump voters"? And, and not just Trump voters - the most common search phrase on Google on 11/20/2024? "Did Biden drop out?" You have far more faith in an educated electorate than I.
  - nobody9999 11mo ago
    >No, it wasn't clear. I know several Trump voters who either didn't know Project 2025 existed or believed the lies that it was a liberal hoax. >To anyone paying an ounce of attention, yeah it might have been clear. Many, many folks were out there long before the election saying (both as promises -- from the Trumpers and warnings -- from pretty much everyone else) that Project 2025 would be the blueprint for a new Trump administration. That some folks either ignored or disbelieved it doesn't make it "unclear." Rather, it means that a lot of people believed the lies. Which says more about those who believed such lies than it does about everyone else. And to put a fine point on it, what more could others have done to disabuse those folks of the lies told them by the Trump campaign? Seriously.
- mmmm2 11mo ago
  Agreed. Anyone with a modicum of common sense knew this was the plan all along. It's not like it was hard to find people saying this before the election.
FranzFerdiNaN 11mo ago
> The Trump campaign deliberately distanced itself from Project 2025. The Trump campaign lied. Just like Trump mostly lies any time his lips move.

arcastroe 11mo ago

For those less informed, such as myself. Could you provide a quick summary of those project 2025 successes achieved by DOGE?

estearum 11mo ago
https://www.project2025.observer/en https://www.project2025.observer/en DOGE was the bludgeon that crippled most of the targets on this list. Not the only one, but a major player.
jimmydddd 11mo ago
They want to to shut down large portions of the government. For example, they want to completely eliminate all public education, not make it more efficient.