3 ms·

How old is the earth?

Egret 1y ago
If you use a philosophical uniformitarian interpretation of the amount of process that has occurred on earth or in the cosmos, you will get a figure of hundreds of millions of years or even billions of years. We do not dispute the amount of process. We deny philosophical uniformitarianism, which is an atheistic presupposition. The age of the earth, according to a reasonable interpretation of the Old Testament, is likely to be 6000 (Masoretic text) to 8500 years (if you rely on the Septuagint versions).
- andsoitis 1y ago
  The age of the earth, according to a reasonable interpretation of the Old Testament, is likely to be 6000 (Masoretic text) to 8500 years (if you rely on the Septuagint versions). Are you saying the earth is less than 10,000 old?
- defrost 1y ago
  Alternatively for reasonable interpretations of calcite deposition rates, other mineralisation layering rates, uranium series decay rates, and other STEM processes it's clear the earth is at the very least more than 40,000 years old wrt human activity: * https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-25/new-dating-technique-oldest-kimberley-rock-art/100387884 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-25/new-dating-technique-... * https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-14/indonesia-sulawesi-homo-sapiens-caves-rock-art-warty-pig-humans/13050766 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-14/indonesia-sul... * https://therangeskarratha.com.au/explore/rock-art https://therangeskarratha.com.au/explore/rock-art It's a philosophical argument of the truthiness of texts recording goat herders begetting goat herders Vs rates of change in observable physical features of the earth.
- bediger4000 1y ago
  We deny philosophical uniformitarianism Then you're just making it up as you go along.
  - Egret 1y ago
    All origins systems are underpinned by unprovable presuppositions, including atheistic origins accounts, the biblical origin account, and so on. Origins accounts have to be logically compatible with science and have explanatory power. Philosophical uniformitarianism is an atheistic presupposition. It is more in the realm of philosophy than science, yet it has a significant bearing on how atheists interpret scientific evidence, especially in the origins domain.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > The age of the earth, according to a reasonable interpretation of the Old Testament, is likely to be 6000 (Masoretic text) to 8500 years (if you rely on the Septuagint versions). So, when you say Christian creationism is “evidence based”, you mean a “reasonable interpretation” of a text with a whole litany of direct internal inconsistencies, and which itself has no evidence (leaving aside personal faith) of being anything other than a collection of mythology, supports it and not, you know, actual material evidence?
  - Egret 1y ago
    Christians and some prominent secular scientists agree that the origin of life on earth is a miracle. One group posits a Divine miracle. The other a secular miracle. Abiogenesis is foundational to the secular origins account. Before abiogenesis occurs, the mechanisms of biological evolution cannot be invoked. George Wald, Nobel Prize winner called abiogenesis both impossible and implied it was a miracle. Francis Crick implied it was a miracle. Fred Hoyle, atheist, calculated a probability for abiogenesis of 10 raised to the power of negative 40,000. Eugene Koonin in about 2012, invoked the multiverse as an infinity to try to make abiogenesis seemingly plausible. He calculated the probability of the RNA world hypothesis at less than 10 raised to the power of negative 1000. It has been labelled the hardest problem in biology. The most celebrated atheist of the twentieth century, Anthony Flew, left atheism when he realised the impossibility of abiogenesis and became a theist of some sort. If you need a miracle to explain abiogenesis, as these secular authorities have said, then the secular origins account is not as rigorously "scientific" as some might suppose.
Egret 1y ago
I regard the Masoretic text as generally more authoritative, so I would give an age of the earth/cosmos in calendar years of approximately 6000 years.
- andsoitis 1y ago
  The Catholic Church follows the scientific consensus that the Earth is billions of years old.
  - Egret 1y ago
    That is broadly true, although there are creationist organisations within the Roman Catholic world. The major creationist organisations are evangelical (Protestant).

If you use a philosophical uniformitarian interpretation of the amount of process that has occurred on earth or in the cosmos, you will get a figure of hundreds of millions of years or even billions of years. We do not dispute the amount of process. We deny philosophical uniformitarianism, which is an atheistic presupposition. The age of the earth, according to a reasonable interpretation of the Old Testament, is likely to be 6000 (Masoretic text) to 8500 years (if you rely on the Septuagint versions).

andsoitis 1y ago
The age of the earth, according to a reasonable interpretation of the Old Testament, is likely to be 6000 (Masoretic text) to 8500 years (if you rely on the Septuagint versions). Are you saying the earth is less than 10,000 old?
defrost 1y ago
Alternatively for reasonable interpretations of calcite deposition rates, other mineralisation layering rates, uranium series decay rates, and other STEM processes it's clear the earth is at the very least more than 40,000 years old wrt human activity: * https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-25/new-dating-technique-oldest-kimberley-rock-art/100387884 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-25/new-dating-technique-... * https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-14/indonesia-sulawesi-homo-sapiens-caves-rock-art-warty-pig-humans/13050766 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-14/indonesia-sul... * https://therangeskarratha.com.au/explore/rock-art https://therangeskarratha.com.au/explore/rock-art It's a philosophical argument of the truthiness of texts recording goat herders begetting goat herders Vs rates of change in observable physical features of the earth.
bediger4000 1y ago
We deny philosophical uniformitarianism Then you're just making it up as you go along.
- Egret 1y ago
  All origins systems are underpinned by unprovable presuppositions, including atheistic origins accounts, the biblical origin account, and so on. Origins accounts have to be logically compatible with science and have explanatory power. Philosophical uniformitarianism is an atheistic presupposition. It is more in the realm of philosophy than science, yet it has a significant bearing on how atheists interpret scientific evidence, especially in the origins domain.
dragonwriter 1y ago
> The age of the earth, according to a reasonable interpretation of the Old Testament, is likely to be 6000 (Masoretic text) to 8500 years (if you rely on the Septuagint versions). So, when you say Christian creationism is “evidence based”, you mean a “reasonable interpretation” of a text with a whole litany of direct internal inconsistencies, and which itself has no evidence (leaving aside personal faith) of being anything other than a collection of mythology, supports it and not, you know, actual material evidence?
- Egret 1y ago
  Christians and some prominent secular scientists agree that the origin of life on earth is a miracle. One group posits a Divine miracle. The other a secular miracle. Abiogenesis is foundational to the secular origins account. Before abiogenesis occurs, the mechanisms of biological evolution cannot be invoked. George Wald, Nobel Prize winner called abiogenesis both impossible and implied it was a miracle. Francis Crick implied it was a miracle. Fred Hoyle, atheist, calculated a probability for abiogenesis of 10 raised to the power of negative 40,000. Eugene Koonin in about 2012, invoked the multiverse as an infinity to try to make abiogenesis seemingly plausible. He calculated the probability of the RNA world hypothesis at less than 10 raised to the power of negative 1000. It has been labelled the hardest problem in biology. The most celebrated atheist of the twentieth century, Anthony Flew, left atheism when he realised the impossibility of abiogenesis and became a theist of some sort. If you need a miracle to explain abiogenesis, as these secular authorities have said, then the secular origins account is not as rigorously "scientific" as some might suppose.

Egret 1y ago

I regard the Masoretic text as generally more authoritative, so I would give an age of the earth/cosmos in calendar years of approximately 6000 years.

andsoitis 1y ago
The Catholic Church follows the scientific consensus that the Earth is billions of years old.
- Egret 1y ago
  That is broadly true, although there are creationist organisations within the Roman Catholic world. The major creationist organisations are evangelical (Protestant).