5 ms·

relies on your phone working 2.4 Ghz your internet connection your power their datacenter their website software to avoid carrying a key? anyone

by trotsky 14y ago

relies on your phone working 2.4 Ghz your internet connection your power their datacenter their website software to avoid carrying a key? anyone in the area could easily ddos off your wireless more or less permanently by spamming disconnect. doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me. whats the problem with a more traditional (read local) keyless approach? door too thick?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
apawloski 14y ago
To be fair (I share some of your hesitance), the old-fashioned key still works, so if for some reason one of these dependencies was unmet, then you're not totally out of luck.
nollidge 14y ago
Or bluetooth or NFC, which to me are far more enticing.
- eco 14y ago
  The website says it works with both Bluetooth and NFC.
  - veemjeem 14y ago
    Probably not NFC though. You need a much smaller distance to read NFC (or a much bigger antenna). I doubt it could read a NFC keycard through the thickness of the door. I'm sure all that metal in the lock would act as a great RF shield too. It uses more power than BT4, and all devices that have NFC also have BT4 so it probably wouldn't make sense to power both.
    - bradtgmurray 14y ago
      They have an external NFC tag that you can place near your front door that triggers the app on your phone to unlock your door through the web.
  - nollidge 14y ago
    Right, sorry, that's what I meant to indicate. Should've quoted the part I was responding to.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
eggbrain 14y ago
Why use a car? Relies on: Gas to run You making sure everything is well maintained Expensive vs biking Auto mechanics needed if your car breaks down Anyone in your area could easily steal your car or explode it rendering it useless. Doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me. Kidding aside, you must not have read very carefully, since it has NFC and Bluetooth as backups. The DDOS scenario would require a targeted attack, and wouldn't render it useless anyways as per the above. The device works for renters who can't change their lock, but still want some convenience. Yes, it has some drawbacks. But I think it is an incredibly well thought out device that I'm jumping on.
- trotsky 14y ago
  wouldn't it be more like why make a coal driven steam engine when diesel models had been out for 30 years?
  - eggbrain 14y ago
    The device offers many features current lock-and-key models don't, and can be used by a wide variety of people (whereas you cant use custom locks for apartments). Your analogy above really makes no sense. But going back to your original post, at least two of your drawbacks were wrong, and the others seemed to be nay saying for simply the joy of doing so. A DDOS attack on someones wireless to stop them from getting in? A) Something that wouldn't have affected the lock since Bluetooth and NFC works B) A targeted scenario that might as well be "well locks don't protect against rocks thrown through windows! Why use a laptop to write notes (that requires your laptop to have power/working correctly) when a simple pen and paper will do? We can trivialize anything using that methodology.
  - veemjeem 14y ago
    I don't understand why you're so negative. It's a new product that has new benefits, and new drawbacks. The same could be said about the calculator when it first came out. You couldn't even compute logarithms on the first calculator model, but the slide rule had no problems. Most people were faster using the slide rule so it felt like the calculator was a backwards technological progression. Should we try to innovate on the calculator or go back to using slide rules?
paulgerhardt 14y ago
With the Bluetooth 4 radio it only relies on a Bluetooth 4 enabled device (like your phone) and the door lock itself.
- trotsky 14y ago
  yeah, I missed that the first time around and that definitely nullifies pretty much all of my issues - i had a visceral reaction when i read phone...website...lock... and managed to bring up a bunch of non-issues
xutopia 14y ago
The advantage for me is that I don't have to get my keys out if I'm carrying groceries or one of my kids. The bluetooth receiver means it will open the door automatically for me.
TeMPOraL 14y ago
> relies on > (...) > their datacenter > their website software This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  (I think the traditional wording of the phrase is a tad harsh, but..) I think it is a case of "When you really love your hammer, everything looks like a nail."
  - netcan 14y ago
    I like analogies that aren't necessarily dismissive. How about If you're a carpenter, you tend to make things out of wood." You can make a lot of stuff out of wood, if you're good. You need relatively few general purpose tools. It's not always the best, but in many cases it's good enough. The first Apple had a wooden body. Early cars too.
  - netcan 14y ago
    I like analogies that aren't necessarily dismissive. How about If you're a carpenter, you tend to make things out of wood." You can make a lot of stuff out of wood, if you're good. You need relatively few general purpose tools. It's not always the best, but in many cases it's good enough. The first Apple had a wooden body. Early cars too. Technology is giving us a lot of stuff which we call "tools" but we might also call "materials." Like physical tools and materials, they all take time to learn and much longer to understand well. Sometimes we use chisels & planks when welding pipes or casting iron would be better because we have a woodworking setup in the garage.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      Good call. The feel of that analogy is closer to what I had in mind.
run4yourlives 14y ago
It doesn't disable the key, so you can still hide one under the mat. But now you know if anyone uses it.

by trotsky 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

apawloski 14y ago

To be fair (I share some of your hesitance), the old-fashioned key still works, so if for some reason one of these dependencies was unmet, then you're not totally out of luck.

nollidge 14y ago

Or bluetooth or NFC, which to me are far more enticing.

eco 14y ago
The website says it works with both Bluetooth and NFC.
- veemjeem 14y ago
  Probably not NFC though. You need a much smaller distance to read NFC (or a much bigger antenna). I doubt it could read a NFC keycard through the thickness of the door. I'm sure all that metal in the lock would act as a great RF shield too. It uses more power than BT4, and all devices that have NFC also have BT4 so it probably wouldn't make sense to power both.
  - bradtgmurray 14y ago
    They have an external NFC tag that you can place near your front door that triggers the app on your phone to unlock your door through the web.
- nollidge 14y ago
  Right, sorry, that's what I meant to indicate. Should've quoted the part I was responding to.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

eggbrain 14y ago

Why use a car? Relies on: Gas to run You making sure everything is well maintained Expensive vs biking Auto mechanics needed if your car breaks down Anyone in your area could easily steal your car or explode it rendering it useless. Doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me. Kidding aside, you must not have read very carefully, since it has NFC and Bluetooth as backups. The DDOS scenario would require a targeted attack, and wouldn't render it useless anyways as per the above. The device works for renters who can't change their lock, but still want some convenience. Yes, it has some drawbacks. But I think it is an incredibly well thought out device that I'm jumping on.

trotsky 14y ago
wouldn't it be more like why make a coal driven steam engine when diesel models had been out for 30 years?
- eggbrain 14y ago
  The device offers many features current lock-and-key models don't, and can be used by a wide variety of people (whereas you cant use custom locks for apartments). Your analogy above really makes no sense. But going back to your original post, at least two of your drawbacks were wrong, and the others seemed to be nay saying for simply the joy of doing so. A DDOS attack on someones wireless to stop them from getting in? A) Something that wouldn't have affected the lock since Bluetooth and NFC works B) A targeted scenario that might as well be "well locks don't protect against rocks thrown through windows! Why use a laptop to write notes (that requires your laptop to have power/working correctly) when a simple pen and paper will do? We can trivialize anything using that methodology.
- veemjeem 14y ago
  I don't understand why you're so negative. It's a new product that has new benefits, and new drawbacks. The same could be said about the calculator when it first came out. You couldn't even compute logarithms on the first calculator model, but the slide rule had no problems. Most people were faster using the slide rule so it felt like the calculator was a backwards technological progression. Should we try to innovate on the calculator or go back to using slide rules?

paulgerhardt 14y ago

With the Bluetooth 4 radio it only relies on a Bluetooth 4 enabled device (like your phone) and the door lock itself.

trotsky 14y ago
yeah, I missed that the first time around and that definitely nullifies pretty much all of my issues - i had a visceral reaction when i read phone...website...lock... and managed to bring up a bunch of non-issues

xutopia 14y ago

The advantage for me is that I don't have to get my keys out if I'm carrying groceries or one of my kids. The bluetooth receiver means it will open the door automatically for me.

TeMPOraL 14y ago

> relies on > (...) > their datacenter > their website software This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.

jlgreco 14y ago
(I think the traditional wording of the phrase is a tad harsh, but..) I think it is a case of "When you really love your hammer, everything looks like a nail."
- netcan 14y ago
  I like analogies that aren't necessarily dismissive. How about If you're a carpenter, you tend to make things out of wood." You can make a lot of stuff out of wood, if you're good. You need relatively few general purpose tools. It's not always the best, but in many cases it's good enough. The first Apple had a wooden body. Early cars too.
- netcan 14y ago
  I like analogies that aren't necessarily dismissive. How about If you're a carpenter, you tend to make things out of wood." You can make a lot of stuff out of wood, if you're good. You need relatively few general purpose tools. It's not always the best, but in many cases it's good enough. The first Apple had a wooden body. Early cars too. Technology is giving us a lot of stuff which we call "tools" but we might also call "materials." Like physical tools and materials, they all take time to learn and much longer to understand well. Sometimes we use chisels & planks when welding pipes or casting iron would be better because we have a woodworking setup in the garage.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Good call. The feel of that analogy is closer to what I had in mind.

run4yourlives 14y ago

It doesn't disable the key, so you can still hide one under the mat. But now you know if anyone uses it.