3 ms·

Surely there's better technological solutions for encrypting block data in the cloud with lower risks of service ensh*tification?

by bjt12345 11mo ago

jszymborski 11mo ago
The state of things isn't great IMHO. Im not sure I trust any of EncFS, CryFS, and gocryptfs. Many leak metadata and/or have serious security concerns.
- karlgkk 11mo ago
  Metadata leakage is a fundamental issue when you go from block to object. I can think of some schemes that would help but they’re all kinda nasty lol
  - jszymborski 11mo ago
    Of course, and I didnt intend to downplay the efforts of those projects. Just pointing out that they don't meet the requirements of most threat models.
    - karlgkk 11mo ago
      I kinda gotta push back on that Most threat models don’t include state level or equally well funded/motivated actors. Some of those, in theory, are fine for most corporate usage - when used or implemented by knowledgeable people. Shipping it as a consumer product is a bit rougher of a story, although most companies seem to cope by not giving a shit (lol, oof)
- ysnp 11mo ago
  Can you detail the current metadata and security problems with CryFS? Do they also extend/apply to securefs?
somat 11mo ago
luks on an iscsi drive Joking of course, but I am playing around with a similar setup, I should try it over the actual internet and see how much it sucks. Now I am arguing with myself if you would want to run it over an encrypted tunnel. Theoretically no, but drive encryption is not really designed to protect data in transit who knows what sidechannel data would leak, so maybe... and the tunnel probably has better authentication than iscsi
brendoncarroll 11mo ago
I work on a project Blobcache, a content addressed store for exposing and consuming storage over the network. It supports full end to end encryption, and offers a minimal API to prevent applications from leaking data. https://github.com/blobcache/blobcache/blob/master/doc/0.2_Why_Blobcache.md https://github.com/blobcache/blobcache/blob/master/doc/0.2_W... You can persist arbitrary hash-linked data structures in Blobcache volumes. One such data structure is the Git-Like Filesystem, which supports the usual files and trees. https://github.com/blobcache/blobcache/blob/master/doc/8.5_GLFS.md https://github.com/blobcache/blobcache/blob/master/doc/8.5_G...
drnick1 11mo ago
My suggestion, if you can, would be to host the data on your own hardware. The Internet was initially conceived with this kind of decentralization in mind -- most people/organizations hosting their own websites/email/files/etc. And this is what we must go back to if we want to retake control from "cloud" providers. Technically, this could be as simple as a Samba server behind Wireguard, but you could also, or in addition, look into other projects like Nextcloud especially if you are interested in sharing files with people.
tachim 11mo ago
Proton’s product changes over the last couple years are the exact opposite of that. I think they’re the only credible game in town for an email/drive service in the cloud that doesn’t have AI data mining risks.
ianopolous 11mo ago
You might be interested in Peergos [0][1] which is E2EE, fully open source (including the server), and self hostable. We've been audited by Cure53 and Radically Open Security. [0] https://peergos.org https://peergos.org [1] https://github.com/peergos/peergos https://github.com/peergos/peergos

Surely there's better technological solutions for encrypting block data in the cloud with lower risks of service ensh*tification?

jszymborski 11mo ago

The state of things isn't great IMHO. Im not sure I trust any of EncFS, CryFS, and gocryptfs. Many leak metadata and/or have serious security concerns.

karlgkk 11mo ago
Metadata leakage is a fundamental issue when you go from block to object. I can think of some schemes that would help but they’re all kinda nasty lol
- jszymborski 11mo ago
  Of course, and I didnt intend to downplay the efforts of those projects. Just pointing out that they don't meet the requirements of most threat models.
  - karlgkk 11mo ago
    I kinda gotta push back on that Most threat models don’t include state level or equally well funded/motivated actors. Some of those, in theory, are fine for most corporate usage - when used or implemented by knowledgeable people. Shipping it as a consumer product is a bit rougher of a story, although most companies seem to cope by not giving a shit (lol, oof)
ysnp 11mo ago
Can you detail the current metadata and security problems with CryFS? Do they also extend/apply to securefs?

somat 11mo ago

luks on an iscsi drive Joking of course, but I am playing around with a similar setup, I should try it over the actual internet and see how much it sucks. Now I am arguing with myself if you would want to run it over an encrypted tunnel. Theoretically no, but drive encryption is not really designed to protect data in transit who knows what sidechannel data would leak, so maybe... and the tunnel probably has better authentication than iscsi

brendoncarroll 11mo ago

I work on a project Blobcache, a content addressed store for exposing and consuming storage over the network. It supports full end to end encryption, and offers a minimal API to prevent applications from leaking data. https://github.com/blobcache/blobcache/blob/master/doc/0.2_Why_Blobcache.md https://github.com/blobcache/blobcache/blob/master/doc/0.2_W... You can persist arbitrary hash-linked data structures in Blobcache volumes. One such data structure is the Git-Like Filesystem, which supports the usual files and trees. https://github.com/blobcache/blobcache/blob/master/doc/8.5_GLFS.md https://github.com/blobcache/blobcache/blob/master/doc/8.5_G...

drnick1 11mo ago

My suggestion, if you can, would be to host the data on your own hardware. The Internet was initially conceived with this kind of decentralization in mind -- most people/organizations hosting their own websites/email/files/etc. And this is what we must go back to if we want to retake control from "cloud" providers. Technically, this could be as simple as a Samba server behind Wireguard, but you could also, or in addition, look into other projects like Nextcloud especially if you are interested in sharing files with people.

tachim 11mo ago

Proton’s product changes over the last couple years are the exact opposite of that. I think they’re the only credible game in town for an email/drive service in the cloud that doesn’t have AI data mining risks.

ianopolous 11mo ago

You might be interested in Peergos [0][1] which is E2EE, fully open source (including the server), and self hostable. We've been audited by Cure53 and Radically Open Security. [0] https://peergos.org https://peergos.org [1] https://github.com/peergos/peergos https://github.com/peergos/peergos