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Sounds like 2 apps to me, maybe they should split it into Signal and SignalUltraSafeTM, for the paranoid, but more inconvenient, with some interoperability betw

Sounds like 2 apps to me, maybe they should split it into Signal and SignalUltraSafeTM, for the paranoid, but more inconvenient, with some interoperability between them.

CrossVR 11mo ago
What if people on SignalUltraSafeTM want to talk to people on regular Signal? Telegram solved this already though, they allow users to register using either their phone number or a unique username. But Telegram has a huge spam problem. Which is likely the real reason Signal requires a phone number.
- nalekberov 11mo ago
  > But Telegram has a huge spam problem. Which is likely the real reason Signal requires a phone number. I was able to register with fake number I got for free on the internet. That clearly doesn't solve SPAM problem. If I know that, Signal certainly knows that.
  - Sophira 11mo ago
    Did you have to supply your personal details to anybody in order to get that free number?
    - nalekberov 11mo ago
      Not at all, but the downside is it works until someone takes over.
  - CrossVR 11mo ago
    There's not an unlimited amount of fake numbers available, that's the difference. The point is to limit your ability to register thousands of accounts. Spam filtering is a game of numbers, every limit you impose to the ability of spammers to amplify their message reduces the likelihood a particular individual receives a spam message.
- Esophagus4 11mo ago
  And then you have to pay for premium to prevent unknown users from spamming you! Booooo you telegram
danelski 11mo ago
The paranoid crowd already has decentralised apps that you might not have heard of because… well.
udev4096 11mo ago
Ultra paranoid group already despises Signal because of it's strict phone number requirement and moxie's stubborn and unreasonable stance on refusing anyone to self-host. Matrix is far better than Signal
- pcthrowaway 11mo ago
  I think Moxie's issue is with using their server for custom clients, but I'm curious if you have a link to him stating opposition to self-hosting?
  - writebetterc 11mo ago
    Moxie doesn't want to federate, that's the main issue I believe.
  - udev4096 11mo ago
    Moxie thinks everyone in the world is a fucking normie and people shouldn't be running servers because he hates freedom and loves centralizing everything. It's rare when such a genius cryptographer has hatred towards decentralization
    - sliken 11mo ago
      Wow, that's a pretty negative take. Signals mission seems to be something along the lines of helping the most people increase their privacy. Better to help millions resist the dragnet of surveillance by ISPs, governments, and large organizations then to have perfect security for a few. This requires a very easy to use client (i.e. click on signal in the app store and launch), features users want (send receipts, typing notifications, emoji, video, calls, etc), and making wrong choices hard. Like say installing a random compatible with signal client from an untrustworthy source. So Moxie is fine with people forking the open source client, but wants them to use their own servers. Distributed/decentralization isn't some magic pixy dust that makes everything better. So sure federation can work, but it's harder, and you run into things like XMPP. Are there secure XMPP servers out there, sure, but how do you tell? Which XMPP server supports which extension? How many people use XMPP for their chat/calls on a daily basis? Seems kind of weird to pick on signal for doing things well and getting popular. Could it be more secure/private, sure. Could it do so AND be more popular, not so sure.

Sounds like 2 apps to me, maybe they should split it into Signal and SignalUltraSafeTM, for the paranoid, but more inconvenient, with some interoperability between them.

CrossVR 11mo ago

What if people on SignalUltraSafeTM want to talk to people on regular Signal? Telegram solved this already though, they allow users to register using either their phone number or a unique username. But Telegram has a huge spam problem. Which is likely the real reason Signal requires a phone number.

nalekberov 11mo ago
> But Telegram has a huge spam problem. Which is likely the real reason Signal requires a phone number. I was able to register with fake number I got for free on the internet. That clearly doesn't solve SPAM problem. If I know that, Signal certainly knows that.
- Sophira 11mo ago
  Did you have to supply your personal details to anybody in order to get that free number?
  - nalekberov 11mo ago
    Not at all, but the downside is it works until someone takes over.
- CrossVR 11mo ago
  There's not an unlimited amount of fake numbers available, that's the difference. The point is to limit your ability to register thousands of accounts. Spam filtering is a game of numbers, every limit you impose to the ability of spammers to amplify their message reduces the likelihood a particular individual receives a spam message.
Esophagus4 11mo ago
And then you have to pay for premium to prevent unknown users from spamming you! Booooo you telegram

danelski 11mo ago

The paranoid crowd already has decentralised apps that you might not have heard of because… well.

udev4096 11mo ago

Ultra paranoid group already despises Signal because of it's strict phone number requirement and moxie's stubborn and unreasonable stance on refusing anyone to self-host. Matrix is far better than Signal

pcthrowaway 11mo ago
I think Moxie's issue is with using their server for custom clients, but I'm curious if you have a link to him stating opposition to self-hosting?
- writebetterc 11mo ago
  Moxie doesn't want to federate, that's the main issue I believe.
- udev4096 11mo ago
  Moxie thinks everyone in the world is a fucking normie and people shouldn't be running servers because he hates freedom and loves centralizing everything. It's rare when such a genius cryptographer has hatred towards decentralization
  - sliken 11mo ago
    Wow, that's a pretty negative take. Signals mission seems to be something along the lines of helping the most people increase their privacy. Better to help millions resist the dragnet of surveillance by ISPs, governments, and large organizations then to have perfect security for a few. This requires a very easy to use client (i.e. click on signal in the app store and launch), features users want (send receipts, typing notifications, emoji, video, calls, etc), and making wrong choices hard. Like say installing a random compatible with signal client from an untrustworthy source. So Moxie is fine with people forking the open source client, but wants them to use their own servers. Distributed/decentralization isn't some magic pixy dust that makes everything better. So sure federation can work, but it's harder, and you run into things like XMPP. Are there secure XMPP servers out there, sure, but how do you tell? Which XMPP server supports which extension? How many people use XMPP for their chat/calls on a daily basis? Seems kind of weird to pick on signal for doing things well and getting popular. Could it be more secure/private, sure. Could it do so AND be more popular, not so sure.