4 ms·

Damn! He has mad game, holy hell. You can’t get to those feats with good looks alone. This guy was rizzing [1] as hell when he was in his prime! [1] Rizz: fr

Damn! He has mad game, holy hell. You can’t get to those feats with good looks alone. This guy was rizzing [1] as hell when he was in his prime! [1] Rizz: from the word charisma. As I understand what it means: being amazingly charismatic towards your romantic interests in order to start a conversation with them and ultimately seduce them. It’s similar to the word game in that sense. Younger people seem to use the word rizz nowadays.

FooBarBizBazz 11mo ago
IMO "seduce" has the negative connotation that you are somehow manipulating a "target", whereas "charisma" is more positive; it means your behavior attracts positive attention -- that people find you compelling and interesting, that they will want to follow your lead. (Granted, in concrete terms these may not always be so different -- but to say that is to accept a cynical frame.) I understand "rizz" as entirely a short form of "charisma" with all the same connotations -- in which case I wouldn't focus it to "romantic interests" or to the goal of "ultimately seduce[ing] them" -- but it's possible that younger people use "rizz" differently than I use "charisma". The word "charisma" is a little gendered. You are more likely to hear a man described as "charismatic" than a woman. A woman is more likely to be -- well, honestly, the word would probably just be "hot" (or "sexy" -- as used here for Garibaldi), which would place a lot more emphasis on appearance; though to focus more on behavioral aspects, one might hear (I'm reaching here) "effervescent" or "fascinating". I suppose "magnetic" is also an option, though that seems pretty gender-neutral to me. The slang "game" you mention seems intermediate in connotation to me. The meaning is closer to "ability to seduce", but the connotation is not quite so negative. The implication is that "the game" is simply part of life, neither good nor bad; it is what it is. Of course, the connotations of "rizz" or "charisma" are less sexual overall. Possibly some amount of what I'm calling "positive connotations" or "negative connotations" simply reflects that, and our society's Judeo-Christian negativity towards sex (which in "conservative" places forces LGBT people at least a little into the closet; and in "liberal" places survives primarily for straight men, the bastards). Put another way, "charisma" or "rizz" is work-safe, indeed desirable in a CEO (and will likely be rewarded in most employees); whereas "seduction' is not work-safe.
- mettamage 11mo ago
  > IMO "seduce" has the negative connotation that you are somehow manipulating a "target" Hmm in pickup artist lingo, sure. Though that perspective has been eclipsed by all the <insert color> pill people anyway. But the concept of seduction has a long history before that, so I think that that particular view is way too narrow. To seduce someone is to entice, make them fill with anticipation, and so on. I feel certain female seducers, that have a social media presence about it, explain that part relatively well.
  - FooBarBizBazz 11mo ago
    I think my sense of the word "seduce" predates male "pick up artists". My intention is to speak from the cultural mainstream. Consider also uses like, "do not be seduced by fascism". Or: > Pope Francis: ‘The devil is a seducer’ https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2023/12/27/pope-francis-audience-devil-seducer-246801/ https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2023/12/27/pope-franci... ... I am a little curious what you mean by > that perspective has been eclipsed by all the <insert color> pill people anyway though I think I get the general idea; the culture has moved on since the early 2010s. ... > To seduce someone is to entice, make them fill with anticipation, and so on. I feel certain female seducers, that have a social media presence about it, explain that part relatively well. I see no contradiction with what I am saying, apart from (a) the (orthogonal) emphasis on the emotional state being cultivated in the target; and (b) that these speakers are unapologetic. Certainly I have seen efforts to reclaim "seduction" as a kind of "girl power", but there are a few issues with it. The biggest -- and I know this norms on a particular kind of relationship, but I will do so -- is that it primarily makes sense to cultivate this as a "skill" if you plan to have a large number of short term relationships. For many reasons, including the theory of repeated games, I think this is not good for the individual or for society. Instead I would encourage the formation of lifelong pair bonds -- which, yes, has sexy/fun aspects of > entic[ing], mak[ing] them fill with anticipation but I think that would be a little further from the archetypes of the word "seduction". ... If we are looking for a word with positive connotations, I would be a little more comfortable with a gender-neutral use of our other word, "charisma".

FooBarBizBazz 11mo ago

IMO "seduce" has the negative connotation that you are somehow manipulating a "target", whereas "charisma" is more positive; it means your behavior attracts positive attention -- that people find you compelling and interesting, that they will want to follow your lead. (Granted, in concrete terms these may not always be so different -- but to say that is to accept a cynical frame.) I understand "rizz" as entirely a short form of "charisma" with all the same connotations -- in which case I wouldn't focus it to "romantic interests" or to the goal of "ultimately seduce[ing] them" -- but it's possible that younger people use "rizz" differently than I use "charisma". The word "charisma" is a little gendered. You are more likely to hear a man described as "charismatic" than a woman. A woman is more likely to be -- well, honestly, the word would probably just be "hot" (or "sexy" -- as used here for Garibaldi), which would place a lot more emphasis on appearance; though to focus more on behavioral aspects, one might hear (I'm reaching here) "effervescent" or "fascinating". I suppose "magnetic" is also an option, though that seems pretty gender-neutral to me. The slang "game" you mention seems intermediate in connotation to me. The meaning is closer to "ability to seduce", but the connotation is not quite so negative. The implication is that "the game" is simply part of life, neither good nor bad; it is what it is. Of course, the connotations of "rizz" or "charisma" are less sexual overall. Possibly some amount of what I'm calling "positive connotations" or "negative connotations" simply reflects that, and our society's Judeo-Christian negativity towards sex (which in "conservative" places forces LGBT people at least a little into the closet; and in "liberal" places survives primarily for straight men, the bastards). Put another way, "charisma" or "rizz" is work-safe, indeed desirable in a CEO (and will likely be rewarded in most employees); whereas "seduction' is not work-safe.

mettamage 11mo ago
> IMO "seduce" has the negative connotation that you are somehow manipulating a "target" Hmm in pickup artist lingo, sure. Though that perspective has been eclipsed by all the <insert color> pill people anyway. But the concept of seduction has a long history before that, so I think that that particular view is way too narrow. To seduce someone is to entice, make them fill with anticipation, and so on. I feel certain female seducers, that have a social media presence about it, explain that part relatively well.
- FooBarBizBazz 11mo ago
  I think my sense of the word "seduce" predates male "pick up artists". My intention is to speak from the cultural mainstream. Consider also uses like, "do not be seduced by fascism". Or: > Pope Francis: ‘The devil is a seducer’ https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2023/12/27/pope-francis-audience-devil-seducer-246801/ https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2023/12/27/pope-franci... ... I am a little curious what you mean by > that perspective has been eclipsed by all the <insert color> pill people anyway though I think I get the general idea; the culture has moved on since the early 2010s. ... > To seduce someone is to entice, make them fill with anticipation, and so on. I feel certain female seducers, that have a social media presence about it, explain that part relatively well. I see no contradiction with what I am saying, apart from (a) the (orthogonal) emphasis on the emotional state being cultivated in the target; and (b) that these speakers are unapologetic. Certainly I have seen efforts to reclaim "seduction" as a kind of "girl power", but there are a few issues with it. The biggest -- and I know this norms on a particular kind of relationship, but I will do so -- is that it primarily makes sense to cultivate this as a "skill" if you plan to have a large number of short term relationships. For many reasons, including the theory of repeated games, I think this is not good for the individual or for society. Instead I would encourage the formation of lifelong pair bonds -- which, yes, has sexy/fun aspects of > entic[ing], mak[ing] them fill with anticipation but I think that would be a little further from the archetypes of the word "seduction". ... If we are looking for a word with positive connotations, I would be a little more comfortable with a gender-neutral use of our other word, "charisma".