6 ms·

Among the interviews, one with the former engineering director was the most eye-opening for me. https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=17236880&FileE

Among the interviews, one with the former engineering director was the most eye-opening for me. https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=17236880&FileExtension=pdf&FileName=Interview%20-%20OceanGate%20-%20Former%20Dir%20of%20Engineering%20I_Redacted-Rel.pdf https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=17236880&Fi... It appears that all the engineers -- system designer, material engineer and structural analyst -- thought that OceanGate CEO was going to kill himself: If you ever find <name-of-the-engineer>, he’s not going to have a whole lot of nice to say. He was very frustrated with the company. (...) And I understand why. He thought Stockton was going to kill himself. And the director himself declined to dive on Titan when asked: Now, the question is, why wouldn’t the engineer get inside his own vehicle? It was because of what I felt -- and I have a background in Navy diving in EOD operations. I knew firsthand that the operations group was not the right group for that role, and I told him as much, that I don’t trust operations and who he has there.

idontwantthis 10mo ago
I read that the pilot was also basically suicidal. His wife had died, and he was completely fine with the danger because he would die doing what he loved, and he didn't really want to live anymore.
- djmips 10mo ago
  Wasn't the pilot Stockton Rush? His wife was alive. Who are you referring to? I tried to check your claim but I couldn't verify it.
  - nagaiaida 10mo ago
    they're talking about nargeolet > Wreck expert Paul-Henri "P.H." Nargeolet, who was also onboard, told me he wasn't worried about what would happen if the structure of the Titan itself were damaged when at the bottom of the ocean. "Under that pressure, you'd be dead before you knew there was a problem." He said it with a smile. (as recounted by Arnie Weissmann, in Travel Weekly article published June 22, 2023)
    - idontwantthis 10mo ago
      Yeah I got the roles of pilot and guide mixed https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan...
  - netsharc 10mo ago
    There was only one other crew member in that vessel (well, actual crew and not paper "mission specialist"). He was an older gentleman, and it's quite common for older people to have lost their spouse. Was that so hard to figure out?
    - djmips 10mo ago
      yeah but he remarried
bambax 10mo ago
The number of stupid decisions that went in the design and construction of the Titan is astonishing. One of my favorites was that, after putting on the carbon fiber around the tube, they would sand imperfections to make the surface perfectly smooth, severing layers in the process! It shouldn't require an engineering degree from MIT to recognize this as ill-advised.
- lazide 10mo ago
  Even without that, the material is just wrong. It’s strong in tension, not so much compression. Tends towards sudden brittle fractures. Doesn’t like impacts, as it tends to have issues with delaminating. It’s just not what you ever want as a sub hull. It’s dumb. And weight is not even a huge issue for a sub!
  - bambax 10mo ago
    Yes, using carbon fiber was also a very bad decision; it was known for a very long time that it was only good for single-use sub, because after the first dive it was too damaged to continue. In 2014, Virgin Oceanic, which had similar plans with similar technology, closed shop because it didn't make economic sense to build a new sub for each dive. But weight is absolutely an issue; the basic and tried-and-true metal sphere design allows for only three people. Since size and thickness grow exponentially, making a sphere for more than three people becomes more and more difficult. And it should also be possible to lift the vehicle with a crane. But if you want to carry paying passengers (like Oceangate did), having only two per dive is very limiting. That's why they went with a tube design, and carbon fiber to limit weight. But it couldn't work, and it didn't.
    - schiffern 10mo ago
      >size and thickness grow exponentially It's a [reverse] pressure vessel, so it follows pressure vessel scaling. Mass scaling is linear with internal volume.
      - FabHK 10mo ago
robot-wrangler 10mo ago
Wow! Man, an insider with these kinds of concerns isn't exactly exonerating or excusing themselves with such a testimony. Whistle-blowing to any relevant authority as hard as possible seems like the bare minimum? And if there's no governing agency to pass the responsibility over to, I think you gotta quietly approach the first customer (or victim) with these concerns if not a newspaper
bokohut 10mo ago
'And the director himself declined' An anecdotal personal story as it aligns with this exact statement although no one got killed but data breaches certainly occurred. Many years ago now I was propositioned to be on the board of a financial technology company and they spared no expense in literally rolling out the red carpet for my arrival. I found it all very laughable being solely focused on business and the technical details as I was not being fooled by all the schmoozing. After hearing all the unrealistic business objectives and the promise of having the Philadelphia Flyers involved I then asked to meet the technology team that built the product to see a demo. They bring in one young guy who built it all, the executives are still present mind you, and they allow me to ask any and all questions about the platform that nearly no one in management comprehended. After seeing the demo which involved several blatant security issues I asked only one more question of the sole developer: "Would you put your financial information into this system?" He provided his answer in front of the companies executive board and I can still see their reactions to this very day. I then stood up and thanked everyone for opportunity and left.

idontwantthis 10mo ago

I read that the pilot was also basically suicidal. His wife had died, and he was completely fine with the danger because he would die doing what he loved, and he didn't really want to live anymore.

djmips 10mo ago
Wasn't the pilot Stockton Rush? His wife was alive. Who are you referring to? I tried to check your claim but I couldn't verify it.
- nagaiaida 10mo ago
  they're talking about nargeolet > Wreck expert Paul-Henri "P.H." Nargeolet, who was also onboard, told me he wasn't worried about what would happen if the structure of the Titan itself were damaged when at the bottom of the ocean. "Under that pressure, you'd be dead before you knew there was a problem." He said it with a smile. (as recounted by Arnie Weissmann, in Travel Weekly article published June 22, 2023)
  - idontwantthis 10mo ago
    Yeah I got the roles of pilot and guide mixed https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan...
- netsharc 10mo ago
  There was only one other crew member in that vessel (well, actual crew and not paper "mission specialist"). He was an older gentleman, and it's quite common for older people to have lost their spouse. Was that so hard to figure out?
  - djmips 10mo ago
    yeah but he remarried

bambax 10mo ago

The number of stupid decisions that went in the design and construction of the Titan is astonishing. One of my favorites was that, after putting on the carbon fiber around the tube, they would sand imperfections to make the surface perfectly smooth, severing layers in the process! It shouldn't require an engineering degree from MIT to recognize this as ill-advised.

lazide 10mo ago
Even without that, the material is just wrong. It’s strong in tension, not so much compression. Tends towards sudden brittle fractures. Doesn’t like impacts, as it tends to have issues with delaminating. It’s just not what you ever want as a sub hull. It’s dumb. And weight is not even a huge issue for a sub!
- bambax 10mo ago
  Yes, using carbon fiber was also a very bad decision; it was known for a very long time that it was only good for single-use sub, because after the first dive it was too damaged to continue. In 2014, Virgin Oceanic, which had similar plans with similar technology, closed shop because it didn't make economic sense to build a new sub for each dive. But weight is absolutely an issue; the basic and tried-and-true metal sphere design allows for only three people. Since size and thickness grow exponentially, making a sphere for more than three people becomes more and more difficult. And it should also be possible to lift the vehicle with a crane. But if you want to carry paying passengers (like Oceangate did), having only two per dive is very limiting. That's why they went with a tube design, and carbon fiber to limit weight. But it couldn't work, and it didn't.
  - schiffern 10mo ago
    >size and thickness grow exponentially It's a [reverse] pressure vessel, so it follows pressure vessel scaling. Mass scaling is linear with internal volume.
    - FabHK 10mo ago

robot-wrangler 10mo ago

Wow! Man, an insider with these kinds of concerns isn't exactly exonerating or excusing themselves with such a testimony. Whistle-blowing to any relevant authority as hard as possible seems like the bare minimum? And if there's no governing agency to pass the responsibility over to, I think you gotta quietly approach the first customer (or victim) with these concerns if not a newspaper

bokohut 10mo ago

'And the director himself declined' An anecdotal personal story as it aligns with this exact statement although no one got killed but data breaches certainly occurred. Many years ago now I was propositioned to be on the board of a financial technology company and they spared no expense in literally rolling out the red carpet for my arrival. I found it all very laughable being solely focused on business and the technical details as I was not being fooled by all the schmoozing. After hearing all the unrealistic business objectives and the promise of having the Philadelphia Flyers involved I then asked to meet the technology team that built the product to see a demo. They bring in one young guy who built it all, the executives are still present mind you, and they allow me to ask any and all questions about the platform that nearly no one in management comprehended. After seeing the demo which involved several blatant security issues I asked only one more question of the sole developer: "Would you put your financial information into this system?" He provided his answer in front of the companies executive board and I can still see their reactions to this very day. I then stood up and thanked everyone for opportunity and left.