4 ms·

Hey, I don't know why you assume Mojang doesn't employ women. They totally have ... uh ... two female employees out of 28? http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Mo

by JackC 14y ago

Hey, I don't know why you assume Mojang doesn't employ women. They totally have ... uh ... two female employees out of 28? http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Mojang_AB#Current_employees http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Mojang_AB#Current_employee... Oh, so that's why. Incidentally, I don't mean to call you out in particular, but when you call grownup female programmers "girls," lots of very cool women will decide to hang out somewhere else -- sort of for the same reason black men in the US aren't going to love it if someone calls them "boys." Not trying to police your language, just something to think about.

paulhauggis 14y ago
"sort of for the same reason black men in the US aren't going to love it if someone calls them "boys." Why oh why do you need to point this out? I use the words girls and guys all the time and it doesn't mean anything racist or sexist.
- peterwwillis 14y ago
  I use the words girls and guys Boy, not guy. If you used 'boy' for a black male, it would be pretty racist. Know how today it's popular to call to someone by saying "Hey man", "Yo man", etc? That was a trend started by black men in response to racist white people calling them "boy" as a way to insult or demean. The stigma still exists throughout most of black culture because believe it or not, there's still parts of the south where full grown black men are called "boy" by ignorant/racist whites. Using "girl" is not in the same ballpark, so I can see how this may have slipped your mind, but some full-grown women don't like being called a "girl". It's demeaning in a similar way, though I don't believe it was intended to oppress the entire female sex, so it's not nearly as bad. If it's a professional setting, don't call people "girls" or "boys". It's just not respectful. If someone is over the age of 21, just use "woman" or "man", or whatever they prefer to be called. They will appreciate it.
  - Evbn 14y ago
    My 30 year old senior director calls herself a girl in the office. Intent matters more than vocabulary.
    - peterwwillis 14y ago
      Intent matters more than vocabulary. Just because something should matter more doesn't mean it does. I agree that vocabulary alone should not matter, but this isn't how the world works. You can't use 'the N word' in public because people don't differentiate your intent from the vocab. Same goes for all terms for all kinds of people. No matter what anyone calls themselves, it's important you treat all people with respect by default, regardless of how they act towards themselves or others. If your boss calls herself a 'girl', you should still call her a 'woman'. Sometimes people will unwittingly foster an unwelcoming culture by making jokes about themselves. Sexual harassment is one example. By calling herself a 'girl', and by making derogatory comments about women, this boss could be setting the standard for all women in the office to be treated, which is very unfair. The same thing happens with race, religion, etc.
king_jester 14y ago
> Incidentally, I don't mean to call you out in particular, but when you call grownup female programmers "girls," lots of very cool women will decide to hang out somewhere else -- sort of for the same reason black men in the US aren't going to love it if someone calls them "boys." I agree with you that calling female programmers and coworkers as girls is demeaning, but it IS NOT the same as calling a black man a boy, which has a long history of racist oppression.
- BCM43 14y ago
  which has a long history of racist oppression. And there is no history of sexist oppression?
  - king_jester 14y ago
    There is a history current state of sexist oppression, just as with racism. I didn't mean to imply that there is a mutual exclusion: racism and sexism are active parts of our culture and society, both today and in the past. I only want to point out that racism and sexism, while related, are distinct and different. Referring to women in professional circles as girls is a very different kind of thing compared to calling a black man "boy", and attempts to draw parallels between the two are problematic, as we get into the territory of identity and experience erasure.
- seanalltogether 14y ago
  The easiest way to insult any male is to refer to him as a boy. For males it carries the sting of naiveté and inadequacy. Females on the other have a very positive attachment with youth and "girls" and clearly spend a lot of energy continuing to identify themselves that way.
  - king_jester 14y ago
    I wasn't really getting at this. Calling a black man "boy" is extremely racist and doesn't have to do with gender identity. It has to due with systematic culture destruction and oppression as a result of slavery in the United States and conditions in which black folks were placed post slavery.
zerostar07 14y ago
My bad (English is not my native). I hope i haven't offended any women. Also, I did not mean to imply anything about Mojang, it's just that the place looks masculine [1]. [1] https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1327&bih=988&q=mancave&oq=mancave https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&...

by JackC 14y ago

paulhauggis 14y ago

"sort of for the same reason black men in the US aren't going to love it if someone calls them "boys." Why oh why do you need to point this out? I use the words girls and guys all the time and it doesn't mean anything racist or sexist.

peterwwillis 14y ago
I use the words girls and guys Boy, not guy. If you used 'boy' for a black male, it would be pretty racist. Know how today it's popular to call to someone by saying "Hey man", "Yo man", etc? That was a trend started by black men in response to racist white people calling them "boy" as a way to insult or demean. The stigma still exists throughout most of black culture because believe it or not, there's still parts of the south where full grown black men are called "boy" by ignorant/racist whites. Using "girl" is not in the same ballpark, so I can see how this may have slipped your mind, but some full-grown women don't like being called a "girl". It's demeaning in a similar way, though I don't believe it was intended to oppress the entire female sex, so it's not nearly as bad. If it's a professional setting, don't call people "girls" or "boys". It's just not respectful. If someone is over the age of 21, just use "woman" or "man", or whatever they prefer to be called. They will appreciate it.
- Evbn 14y ago
  My 30 year old senior director calls herself a girl in the office. Intent matters more than vocabulary.
  - peterwwillis 14y ago
    Intent matters more than vocabulary. Just because something should matter more doesn't mean it does. I agree that vocabulary alone should not matter, but this isn't how the world works. You can't use 'the N word' in public because people don't differentiate your intent from the vocab. Same goes for all terms for all kinds of people. No matter what anyone calls themselves, it's important you treat all people with respect by default, regardless of how they act towards themselves or others. If your boss calls herself a 'girl', you should still call her a 'woman'. Sometimes people will unwittingly foster an unwelcoming culture by making jokes about themselves. Sexual harassment is one example. By calling herself a 'girl', and by making derogatory comments about women, this boss could be setting the standard for all women in the office to be treated, which is very unfair. The same thing happens with race, religion, etc.

king_jester 14y ago

> Incidentally, I don't mean to call you out in particular, but when you call grownup female programmers "girls," lots of very cool women will decide to hang out somewhere else -- sort of for the same reason black men in the US aren't going to love it if someone calls them "boys." I agree with you that calling female programmers and coworkers as girls is demeaning, but it IS NOT the same as calling a black man a boy, which has a long history of racist oppression.

BCM43 14y ago
which has a long history of racist oppression. And there is no history of sexist oppression?
- king_jester 14y ago
  There is a history current state of sexist oppression, just as with racism. I didn't mean to imply that there is a mutual exclusion: racism and sexism are active parts of our culture and society, both today and in the past. I only want to point out that racism and sexism, while related, are distinct and different. Referring to women in professional circles as girls is a very different kind of thing compared to calling a black man "boy", and attempts to draw parallels between the two are problematic, as we get into the territory of identity and experience erasure.
seanalltogether 14y ago
The easiest way to insult any male is to refer to him as a boy. For males it carries the sting of naiveté and inadequacy. Females on the other have a very positive attachment with youth and "girls" and clearly spend a lot of energy continuing to identify themselves that way.
- king_jester 14y ago
  I wasn't really getting at this. Calling a black man "boy" is extremely racist and doesn't have to do with gender identity. It has to due with systematic culture destruction and oppression as a result of slavery in the United States and conditions in which black folks were placed post slavery.

zerostar07 14y ago

My bad (English is not my native). I hope i haven't offended any women. Also, I did not mean to imply anything about Mojang, it's just that the place looks masculine [1]. [1] https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1327&bih=988&q=mancave&oq=mancave https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&...