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'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex
- lostlogin 11mo agoNew products and new markets clearly help finances. Burning that much gas has got to be their major expense. Are there other way to heat the furnaces?
- hhh 11mo agoSometimes, but not often. These furnaces burn for like 20 years at a time, so gas is pretty common.
- pfdietz 11mo agoGlass furnaces operate somewhere around 1500 C. Electrical heating would work, but that's also quite expensive, usually even more so. What they'd want to do is try to recover and reuse heat. In principle, there's no reason "new" heat has to be added each time they heat a batch of glass, if heat can be transferred from cooling glass back to the input materials.
- rlonstein 11mo ago> What they'd want to do is try to recover and reuse heat. In principle, there's no reason "new" heat has to be added each time they heat a batch of glass, if heat can be transferred from cooling glass back to the input materials. Have you worked in any industrial or craft setting involving molten glass or metal? Walked around a workshop? There's no way the heat is going back into the process.
- pfdietz 11mo agoI know there are industrial processes where heat is efficiently recycled, but I agree there are serious practical problems, particularly if the molten glass must be cooled quickly. Still, even somewhat lower grade heat can be upgraded back to high grade heat with high temperature heat pumps.
- rlonstein 11mo ago> I know there are industrial processes where heat is efficiently recycled, but I agree there are serious practical problems, particularly if the molten glass must be cooled quickly. My experience working with glass is that you _don't_ want it cooled quickly. It will shatter or get internal stresses that cause it to shatter later. You anneal it in a slowly cooling oven over time. Some steels and brass can be annealed slowly and that heat could, I suppose, be captured. Tempering probably not. > Still, even somewhat lower grade heat can be upgraded back to high grade heat with high temperature heat pumps. Which requires energy and incurs losses. If you have energy, assuming electricity, that's cheap enough to scavenge low-level waste heat you probably don't need to recapture the heat.
- GeekyBear 11mo agoWhen they recently decided solar furnaces were not cost effective for electricity production (compared to solar panels), I did wonder if they couldn't be adapted to the production of energy intensive products like glass, bricks, or concrete.
- chihuahua 11mo agoWhile there is no shortage of irrelevant details, the article is very light on relevant details. What prevents the factory from staying in business? Not enough orders? The French people supposedly love this glassware and orders pour in whenever the company is mentioned. They have the factory up and running, they have employees. The workers own the means of production, what could be better than that? Why do they need to expand into new product ranges, if the existing products are in such high demand? I'm not sure if the proposed pint glasses for British pubs are a sure winner. Why not stick with what already works? None of this is explained in the article.
- jonathanstrange 11mo agoI guess they have the same problem that Superfest glass from the GDR had, the glasses just don't break often enough.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 11mo agoExactly. All my glassware are Duralex including coffe cups, and I haven't broken a single glass in 25+ years. Yet, they regularly fall on the ceramic kitchen floor from a hip level.
- adrian_b 11mo agoIndeed. I use only borosilicate glass vessels for cooking, for storing food, for eating and for drinking (some from France, some from Czechia). I have replaced some of them in order to have more optimized sizes and shapes for the ways I use them (even if the replaced vessels were still perfectly good), and I have some extra vessels kept in reserve for the very unlikely case when I will break a vessel (which has not happened yet). I do not expect that I would need to buy any more such vessels during my lifetime, unless I will become bored of those that I have and I would want a change. So making money from selling high-quality glassware that can last forever is much more difficult than getting free money from a software subscription.
- catlikesshrimp 11mo agoProducts which don't respect all the environment, the workers and the consumers are cheaper; much cheaper. You can't win when other players are playing a different game. This is another report from another French glass manufacturer. They couldn't meet their social responsibilty. Workers close the plant, and then the Mayor was pushing an unrelated company inthe viccinity, Nestle, to take over the failing glass plant https://www.glass-international.com/news/o-i-halts-french-glass-furnace https://www.glass-international.com/news/o-i-halts-french-gl...
- pjerem 11mo agoThe article mentions it, but don’t insist on it. Duralex is now quite a special company: they were a renowned and beloved brand that was heading toward bankruptcy, until last year when the company was bought by its own workers and turned into a cooperative. Since then, they have stayed afloat, probably thanks mainly to people wanting to support a worker-owned business by buying their glasses, but still, it works. It’s a pretty positive story so far, and I hope they’ll continue to thrive under this new structure.
- sigmoid10 11mo agoThere's a reason why worker owned companies (which were quite prevalent and a key factor in the 20th century's socialist movements) did not survive in our capitalist world. If we want to see these kinds of companies thrive, we need to change the entire market philosophy. Otherwise they will always be out-competed by companies that favour revenue/profit over worker benefits. In fact they will not even take off in the first place, because that needs capital and investors who own capital will want shares in return, which goes against the core principle of worker-ownership.
- cess11 11mo agoSuch companies are more common than you think.
- griffzhowl 11mo agoThey did survive. There are thousands in Spain and Italy especially. One of the most well-known is the Mondragon Corporation from the Basque country, one of Spain's largest comanies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
- Cyph0n 11mo agoI am particularly interested in coops as a model for a tech startup. How would one go about structuring a new corporation to best ensure it remains a coop?
- erwan577 11mo agoThe brand suffered from energy price hikes, felt particularly sharply after 2022, and its marketing could clearly be improved. Only now, after more than two or three decades, are new designs finally appearing on the roadmap. These glasses were once ubiquitous in public middle-school cafeterias, so the emotional attachment runs deep across generations.
- wkat4242 11mo agoDuralex is good quality anyway, very strong against breaking but they do scratch pretty badly
- debtta 11mo agoThe reason you see a lot of scratches on Duralex glasses in cafés and canteens is because they are so old, having lasted an order of magnitude longer than other glassware.
- variadix 11mo agoThey make great glassware, very scratch and chip resistant.
- mrweasel 11mo agoThat's probably their problem, cheap and long lasting isn't good for business.
- constantcrying 11mo agoTheir products are extremely expensive.
- decimalenough 11mo agoUhh, no? A pack of 6 Picardie glasses retails for €20, so they're a little over €3 each. https://www.amazon.fr/-/en/Duralex-Picardie-Set-Clear-Glasses/dp/B0017LR21Q https://www.amazon.fr/-/en/Duralex-Picardie-Set-Clear-Glasse...
- coryrc 11mo agoApparently 3.14$US on amazon.com: https://www.amazon.com/Duralex-picardie-clear-tumbler-ounce/dp/B0017LR21Q https://www.amazon.com/Duralex-picardie-clear-tumbler-ounce/...
- enaaem 11mo agoHow much are they in your area?
- gniv 11mo agoAs others have said, no they are not, here in France. I'm not sure you can see this page, but it's a set of four 16cl Picardie glasses for 3.79 euro: https://www.carrefour.fr/p/gobelet-picardie-duralex-3550190501001 https://www.carrefour.fr/p/gobelet-picardie-duralex-35501905...
- wpm 11mo ago
- jeffbee 11mo agoThe article doesn't even mention that this company already went bankrupt once this century, in 2008. Like some of the other posters, I furnished my cupboards with Duralex decades ago and never needed any more. In the same way, I filled my flatware drawers with Oneida decades before Oneida disappeared, and my plates are all from some long-forgotten Swedish stoneware maker, and I bought all my furniture from a dead Italian brand at a showroom that no longer exists in San Francisco. I have a personal pet theory on this, which is that the astronomical cost of housing has squeezed out all other aspects of home furnishing from people's budgets, in a race to the bottom where the last brand standing is Ikea.
- constantcrying 11mo agoSelling products based on nostalgia does not work. Europe needs to do far more keep it's industry afloat and to make locally produced products competitive. Duralex is currently selling products at 10x the costs of what a similar product, made in China, costs on Amazon. This is not sustainable. These enormous differences in prices mean that only very people can afford their products. It is a brand which sells an everyday item at prices, which are legitimately hard to afford for most of the population. Obviously a company like this can not succeed long term. It is totally uncompetitive, except for some brand recognition and positive brand perception. These obviously help, but will do nothing for the long term success.
- jnurmine 11mo agoWhich products are you talking about...? Duralex is not really expensive at all. For example, Duralex drinking glass Le Picardie (as in the article), transparent, 36 cl, 18.90 EUR for 6-pack. That is 3.15 EUR per glass. At that price the price/quality is extremely good. Chinese products won't even come close to this.
- oblio 11mo ago> Duralex is currently selling products at 10x the costs of what a similar product, made in China, costs on Amazon. Got some links to the Chinese glasses of comparable quality?
- Broussebar 11mo agoAs the article said Duralex was the brand use by a large number of school cantinas in France. Inside of each glass there’s a small number used by the brand to identify the mold used for the creation of the glass. For kids that was a way to decide who is going to fetch the water for the table (smaller number or higher number of the table). That’s why the CE is holding his glass like that in the guardian article. Beside the nostalgia i think a lot of people support them because it’s a SCOP (the majority of the capital of the company is owned by the employees) [1] and it’s nice to see that another kind of company is possible. [1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_coop%C3%A9rative_et_participative https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_coop%C3%A9ra...
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- Loic 11mo agoDurable is really the French household name "par excellence".
- bluebarbet 11mo agoYou mean Duralex. And maybe not just in France. My British school canteen was monopolised by Duralex too.
- NoImmatureAdHom 11mo agoI too would like to believe that "another kind of company is possible", but this isn't a ringing endorsement...
- anigbrowl 11mo agoEighteen months ago, Marciano oversaw a staff buyout of the company, which had been placed in receivership for the fourth time in 20 years. Today, 180 of the 243 employees are “associates” in the company. It has only been employee-owned for a short time. Some overhang from the management style of the previous 20 years is only to be expected.
- drob518 11mo agoIf they experience a flood of orders every time they are mentioned in the media and people flock to throw them money when they are in trouble, it seems like they should raise prices commensurate with their costs increasing and should probably invest in a little advertising. The brand seems strong and undamaged but they continue to struggle? That seems like a pretty easy fix.
- dano 11mo agoDuring a trip to Venice I had the good fortune of touring http://www.giuman.it/ http://www.giuman.it/ and it was highly educational. Bringing the furnaces up to temperature takes time and turning them off each day isn't a good option. Gas comes primarily from Russia and price spikes have really hurt the business.
- mbivert 11mo agoA few years ago, a journalist went to Duralex, after they restructured (to be own by the employees), and show off the glasses's solidity, live. Every single one of them broke: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x957g7q https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x957g7q
- ornornor 11mo agoWoops
- faragon 11mo agoDuralex were used and loved in Spain, too. Most houses still have some of them, although nowadays there's lot more competition. I would pay twice for their glassware, quality-wise is good stuff.
- cgearhart 11mo agoI have bought a lot of glassware over a couple decades. My usual trick is to look at restaurant supply shops, since they usually have a wide variety to select trade offs in style, price, quality, etc. Somehow I’d never come across Duralex until a few months ago when I was shopping to reorganize my own cupboards. The Duralex stuff I got has been the best glassware I’ve ever had, hands down. I’ll probably order more to put in storage just in case their ongoing struggles disrupt availability in the future. I get it—they’re expensive and so on—but they really are a superior product.
- jay_kyburz 11mo agoI've never bought a glass in my life. We just use old Vegemite jars here in Australia.
- cgearhart 11mo agoMany years ago it was Hershey chocolate fudge jars that we’d put in the cupboard when they were empty. Then shrinkflation led to smaller jars and it lost some of the charm. I still have a few of the old ones.
- Cordiali 11mo agoJam jars were way more common. As a kid, I might've seen one Vegemite jar for every twenty or so jam jars.
- gniv 11mo ago> I get it—they’re expensive and so on—but they really are a superior product. Where are you? Here in France they are not expensive. I bought them at Carrefour when I moved here because I liked the Picardie shape and I thought they were just one of many companies that makes them. They were surprisingly cheap (a bit more than 1 euro per glass iirc).
- l5870uoo9y 11mo agoBought one in Berlin and I would say they are 2-3 times the price of the cheapest competitor, but still worth it. I believe the US used to have their own more rectangular version of the glass.
- tormeh 11mo agoI remember looking at their website and thinking the product design was horrible. The "Picardie" design is iconic, but not really in a good way. In my mind it says "functional" and "old". That's probably unfair, but it is what it is. Everything else they have is generic in the extreme. The IKEA catalog has far more interesting glassware.
- superultra 11mo agoTo each their own. What you call old I call classic. I have bought a few of these pieces and they look great.
- dmix 11mo agoDefinitely looks like something you’d see in a 1970s movie or your grandma’s old cupboard.
- tormeh 11mo agoYeah. They're grandma glasses at this point.
- exo-cortex 11mo agoFunny that you mention IKEA. I have 4 very old IKEA glasses that were made by Duralex. I just love the fact that they're about as old as I am (40 next year) and we're able to survive that long. I consider them to be the peak of IKEA glassware. Today IKEA glasses are known to be breaking easy - sometimes simply by getting hot in the dishwasher. The design might look fresher, but they won't last. The rest of my glasses (most) are Duralex as well. They're just very ... durable. I was kind of getting annoyed that the brand became so popular that I see them everywhere now (every other cafe serves water in them). I'm not French btw, my love for the glasses simply comes from seeing them outlast time and many pretty dramatic falls (a few times on hard ceramic tiles from a meter up and bouncing up almost as high again - leaving a few nearby mouths agape in the process). But reading that they're a worker owned cooperative makes me want to buy many more from them. That's what I want: Stuff that's build to last a long time by people who can live from their work. Who cares if they look dated? For something that's used daily being old is a testament to their quality. I use my IKEA-Duralex glasses almost daily. They look much cooler than any new shit with their battle-scars ight scratches :-D). IKEA is literally the opposite.
- dmix 11mo ago> the soaring cost of gas and electricity were the firm’s largest and most worrying expense Difficult to have factories when basic utilities are expensive. China has a big advantage there as well, not just in labour costs. They invested heavily in energy infrastructure over the past few decades.
- xwolfi 11mo agoHow did they invest in that infrastructure ? The LGFVs they used for that are so large the only way to pay for their loans is to throw in new LGFVs. If there's a place where the music will stop really suddenly and really hard, it's in China, where all this infrastructure to build cheap glasses will completely crumble under the cost of its own financing. They're not increasing margins, so they're not gonna match their bond yields...
- jascination 11mo agoI know Duralex because they're the de facto coffee cup for a latte in the world's best cafes. I dunno how or why it happened, but since about 2008 if you go to a cafe in Melbourne and your latte comes in anything BUT one of those Duralex glasses, you should run for the hills.
- DoneWithAllThat 11mo agoI don’t understand the comments here crowing about how this employee-owned company is a success story against capitalism or something. It was going to go out of business, employees bought it, they also couldn’t make it profitable and had to resort to effectively a gofundme to not collapse. And somehow this is a win against profit driven companies? Do you not see how utterly non-viable this is at scale?
- mfuzzey 11mo agoWell the initial financial problems were under a traditional profit driven scheme. Almost certainy they wouldn't have got the donations they are getting today if they had remained in that model so the employee-owned scheme is at least somewhat better. It is also likely that, in addiiton to donations, they are getting extra sales by being employee-owened, at least in France. Ultimately though it's probably the whole market theey are in (relatively cheap household goods) that is difficult for a company based in a rich country, whatever their ownership model.
- skywal_l 11mo agoFor those understanding french, a little funny video about Duralex history made by Karambolage a few years ago: https://youtu.be/H9T7JCCDeCE?t=5s https://youtu.be/H9T7JCCDeCE?t=5s
- arcade79 11mo agoGrew up with Duralex Provence as the 'regular milk / water glass' here in Norway. Never broke one by accident. Excellent glasses.
- paradox460 11mo agoYears ago I bought a bunch of duralex glasses, to replace my faded college IKEA plasticware. I still have every single one of them, and none are worse for wear. They've been dropped, survived several moves, and even toddlers, and are still going strong
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 11mo agoI love these glasses. I'm drinking out of one right now Great product
- Pacopepejuan 11mo agoDuralex glass and Nokia phone = ultimate phone indestructible and long lasting
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- sylvainr65 11mo agoFrench Canadian here - I remember my mom loving these glasses, back in the 70s-80s. We still use some of them 50 years later. They last for decades.