4 ms·

> The left love to imagine that homeless people are just down-on-their-luck people who just missed out on a mortgage payment or a rent payment. > No. They are

by ajuc 11mo ago

> The left love to imagine that homeless people are just down-on-their-luck people who just missed out on a mortgage payment or a rent payment. > No. They are 98% drug addicts or mentally ill people. Drug addicts and mentally ill people can be down-on-their luck. That somebody is mentally ill or have an addiction does not mean that society should discard them. BTW addiction is very rarely the root cause of a wasted life. It's usually a failed coping strategy. > It's well known that the money that gets given out attract more homeless people. Homeless people are not infinite resource. You can solve homelessness on the country level, not only on the state level, and then it doesn't matter which state attracts more homeless people - because there's very few of them in the whole country. > It's insane that left-wing governments think that spending MORE money will solve the problem when in fact it is the cause of the problem. Poor countries in Eastern Europe does not have this problem. Maybe instead of pretending US is the whole world and if it can't deal with something - it's impossible to deal with it - try to listen to what people did elsewhere?

lII1lIlI11ll 11mo ago
I am from a "poor country in Eastern Europe". I'm not sure how you think homeless is dealt with here, but it is nothing that left-wing US liberal would find palatable I assure you.
- ajuc 11mo ago
  I'm from Poland. Homelessness is not solved maybe, but it's nowhere near to the level of US. The solution seems to be public healthcare, education, transport, safety net and cheap housing. Addiction and mental illness are excuses. Eastern Europe has more mental ilness (generational trauma from WW2 is still alive) and alcoholism than US and yet it has less homeless people. In early 90s my parents were earning 20 USD per month each. It was about average. There were still almost no homeless people. It's a solved problem.
  - lII1lIlI11ll 11mo ago
    It is not "solved", it is marginalized because homeless people are much less tolerated compared to, say, California. In very simple terms a homeless person getting caught shitting on someones porch in Eastern Europe gets punched in the face and kicked out. And no way homeless would be allowed to just squat some park or square with tent encampment in a major city here. Overall, I don't see neither US nor Poland as a big outliers by looking at the stats[0], it just seems like some specific places (SF) made homeless population a highly-visible nuisance by feel-good unrealistic policies that can't possible work. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho...
    - ajuc 11mo ago
      According to these stats Poland has 41% as much homelessness as US.
mlrtime 11mo ago
"Drug addicts and mentally ill people can be down-on-their luck. That somebody is mentally ill or have an addiction does not mean that society should discard them." This line of thinking (IMO) is both manipulative and harmful. At some point we need to realize that we are enabling and not helping. You really want to help both the person and the society that they are part of, you need tough decisions that will not be easy or fun.
- ajuc 11mo ago
  The way to prevent addiction is to help people before they get addicted (and/or become homeless). What caused the opioid crisis? Doctors prescribing opioids for no good reason. Why wasn't it happening in EU? Because in EU doctors are paid and controlled by the taxpayers not by the industry. And because in EU doctors have free public education so they aren't 100 000 dollars in debt when they graduate. Ok but opioids is one way people get addicted/homeless. Another is that they get sick and don't have coverage. Again - in a sane country they get public healthcare so they don't have to default and lose everything - so they have no reason to get addicted. How about mental sickness? Early childhood is very important. Most EU countries have 6 months or more of mandatory paid maternity leave. On top of 20+ days of paid vacations yearly and unlimited paid health leave. Mandated by the state for all employees. If you don't take them - your company gets fined. HR people force you to take the days off. Do you see how that would prevent a lot of mental illness/addiction/homelessness? You can go through most problems in the US, and ultimately they are caused by the insane labour laws, healthcare, or education system. And the funniest part is - you make all these sacrifices by not having a civilized welfare state, and you still end up paying more for healthcare (yes, including the taxes) and living shorter than people in the EU. You get addictions, homelessness, crime, shorter life spans, AND you pay more :)
  - metadope 11mo ago
    Agree with each of your points, but must add some counterpoints as illustration: Land of the free, home of the brave, there are some Americans who will rebel against the requirements and constraints of their lifelong socialization. I think this is an underappreciated factor in the study of homelessness-- people fight to be free, and as the song goes, Freedom is just another word for "nothing left to lose". There is some serious freedom that does along with having only the clothes on your back and whatever is in your pockets...

by ajuc 11mo ago

lII1lIlI11ll 11mo ago

I am from a "poor country in Eastern Europe". I'm not sure how you think homeless is dealt with here, but it is nothing that left-wing US liberal would find palatable I assure you.

ajuc 11mo ago
I'm from Poland. Homelessness is not solved maybe, but it's nowhere near to the level of US. The solution seems to be public healthcare, education, transport, safety net and cheap housing. Addiction and mental illness are excuses. Eastern Europe has more mental ilness (generational trauma from WW2 is still alive) and alcoholism than US and yet it has less homeless people. In early 90s my parents were earning 20 USD per month each. It was about average. There were still almost no homeless people. It's a solved problem.
- lII1lIlI11ll 11mo ago
  It is not "solved", it is marginalized because homeless people are much less tolerated compared to, say, California. In very simple terms a homeless person getting caught shitting on someones porch in Eastern Europe gets punched in the face and kicked out. And no way homeless would be allowed to just squat some park or square with tent encampment in a major city here. Overall, I don't see neither US nor Poland as a big outliers by looking at the stats[0], it just seems like some specific places (SF) made homeless population a highly-visible nuisance by feel-good unrealistic policies that can't possible work. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho...
  - ajuc 11mo ago
    According to these stats Poland has 41% as much homelessness as US.

mlrtime 11mo ago

"Drug addicts and mentally ill people can be down-on-their luck. That somebody is mentally ill or have an addiction does not mean that society should discard them." This line of thinking (IMO) is both manipulative and harmful. At some point we need to realize that we are enabling and not helping. You really want to help both the person and the society that they are part of, you need tough decisions that will not be easy or fun.

ajuc 11mo ago
The way to prevent addiction is to help people before they get addicted (and/or become homeless). What caused the opioid crisis? Doctors prescribing opioids for no good reason. Why wasn't it happening in EU? Because in EU doctors are paid and controlled by the taxpayers not by the industry. And because in EU doctors have free public education so they aren't 100 000 dollars in debt when they graduate. Ok but opioids is one way people get addicted/homeless. Another is that they get sick and don't have coverage. Again - in a sane country they get public healthcare so they don't have to default and lose everything - so they have no reason to get addicted. How about mental sickness? Early childhood is very important. Most EU countries have 6 months or more of mandatory paid maternity leave. On top of 20+ days of paid vacations yearly and unlimited paid health leave. Mandated by the state for all employees. If you don't take them - your company gets fined. HR people force you to take the days off. Do you see how that would prevent a lot of mental illness/addiction/homelessness? You can go through most problems in the US, and ultimately they are caused by the insane labour laws, healthcare, or education system. And the funniest part is - you make all these sacrifices by not having a civilized welfare state, and you still end up paying more for healthcare (yes, including the taxes) and living shorter than people in the EU. You get addictions, homelessness, crime, shorter life spans, AND you pay more :)
- metadope 11mo ago
  Agree with each of your points, but must add some counterpoints as illustration: Land of the free, home of the brave, there are some Americans who will rebel against the requirements and constraints of their lifelong socialization. I think this is an underappreciated factor in the study of homelessness-- people fight to be free, and as the song goes, Freedom is just another word for "nothing left to lose". There is some serious freedom that does along with having only the clothes on your back and whatever is in your pockets...