4 ms·

I have a super high opinion of Valve. Sure, they have loot crates. But sensible people don't buy them. I guess you could blame them for having it in the first p

by awill 10mo ago

I have a super high opinion of Valve. Sure, they have loot crates. But sensible people don't buy them. I guess you could blame them for having it in the first place. That's fair I guess. But I've never for a second considered buying any of that junk. I just buy single player offline games with no IAP, and Steam is amazing. It's a million miles ahead of the competitors, and it's really surprising that EA/Ubi etc.. try to compete but don't get the reason they're losing. They screw customers and then act surprised that customers hate them.

m12k 10mo ago
They've hedged their bets by making, and selling, both games whose monetization is exploitative and non-exploitative
nolok 10mo ago
The problem with loot crates, and the reason why they're being slowly regulated against in several places, is that "sensible people don't buy them" has never stopped people to lose their life to gambling.
- jakeec 10mo ago
  I hope everyone who is so outspoken about loot crates are also fighting for TCG packs to be banned/regulated because they are literally the same level of "gambling".
  - iinnPP 10mo ago
    Let's not forget mystery boxes for real toys and things like mini brands. Though I am not outspoken about it, I think individuals need to come to terms with telling themselves no. Otherwise we need to outlaw everything bad and open to abuse to specific individuals. Things such as cake, donuts, coffee, etc.
    - rpdillon 10mo ago
      > Though I am not outspoken about it, I think individuals need to come to terms with telling themselves no. This really resonates with me. I feel like self-control has gone out of fashion, but it has a lot of merit.
      - cassepipe 10mo ago
        That's because it mostly doesn't work long term. Depending on how your brain got wired, self-control condemns you to a life of misery while not being exposed allows you to live a normal life. Of course you cannot ask for societal experience to be tailored just for you but there seem to be a consensus on protecting the most vulnerable people from the most destructive habits. Where to draw the line is for everyone to find agreement upon and if that's not good enough for you, you need to find a safe haven. Self-control is like a tourniquet on a severed leg, it can buy you time but you need an hospital at some point
        majormajor 10mo ago
        Huh? Most people have perfectly well avoided blowing all their money on baseball card packs or whatever other random "box of randomized items" without enduring a life of misery... It's not that hard.
        cassepipe 10mo ago
        > Depending on how your brain got wired Most people are lucky that their brain is cabled somewhat sanely
      - virtue3 10mo ago
        I think it's difficult to just call things "self control" when there have been entire college majors / studies / casinos dedicated to tricking us into making the choices they want. Look at the Apple price ladder on ipads. Look at any tactic by a casino - go to Reno and see many retires at the beginning of the month drop their whole social security check in the casino. Look at why they label things $9.99 instead of $10.00 Look at why they put all the overpriced candy at the cash register in a super market. Look at how they create junk food to be "perfect" and addictive source: https://archive.globalpolicy.org/world-hunger/trade-and-food-production-system/52309-the-extraordinary-science-of-addictive-junk-food.html%3Fitemid=id.html https://archive.globalpolicy.org/world-hunger/trade-and-food... I have a lot of friends that stopped playing gacha games because they would come home drunk - the game would incentivize you to login - and then blow more money than they truly wanted to. At some level it's unfair to say we should just "have self control" when you have entire academic institutions and entire industries figuring out how to get you to "crack" and make a bad decision that favors their pocket book. So yeah - I agree - we need more self control - but it's being purposefully assaulted every second of our day by EVERYTHING.
  - TulliusCicero 10mo ago
    There's definitely a double standard in the gaming community where people don't treat TCG packs as ethically fraught in the same way, despite being the same thing.
  - gpderetta 10mo ago
    People do compare TCGs to loot crates, in fact calling them the "original" loot crates. Also why "buy singles" has been the mantra for a long time. Aside of gambling, packs have at least a plausible use for limited format.
xinayder 10mo ago
And loot boxes in Valve games never bothered me, because if you want a particular skin you can just buy it off the market. I can't remember being angry at Valve for having loot boxes. All other games require you to keep opening loot boxes to get what you want.
- aaarrm 10mo ago
  Well not with their battle passes in Dota. They employed a lot of FOMO tactics where you had to spend hundreds to guarantee a set that you'll otherwise never be able to get again.
  - patmorgan23 10mo ago
    But again, those are just cosmetic items and there's still a market place for them.

by awill 10mo ago

m12k 10mo ago

They've hedged their bets by making, and selling, both games whose monetization is exploitative and non-exploitative

nolok 10mo ago

The problem with loot crates, and the reason why they're being slowly regulated against in several places, is that "sensible people don't buy them" has never stopped people to lose their life to gambling.

jakeec 10mo ago
I hope everyone who is so outspoken about loot crates are also fighting for TCG packs to be banned/regulated because they are literally the same level of "gambling".
- iinnPP 10mo ago
  Let's not forget mystery boxes for real toys and things like mini brands. Though I am not outspoken about it, I think individuals need to come to terms with telling themselves no. Otherwise we need to outlaw everything bad and open to abuse to specific individuals. Things such as cake, donuts, coffee, etc.
  - rpdillon 10mo ago
    > Though I am not outspoken about it, I think individuals need to come to terms with telling themselves no. This really resonates with me. I feel like self-control has gone out of fashion, but it has a lot of merit.
    - cassepipe 10mo ago
      That's because it mostly doesn't work long term. Depending on how your brain got wired, self-control condemns you to a life of misery while not being exposed allows you to live a normal life. Of course you cannot ask for societal experience to be tailored just for you but there seem to be a consensus on protecting the most vulnerable people from the most destructive habits. Where to draw the line is for everyone to find agreement upon and if that's not good enough for you, you need to find a safe haven. Self-control is like a tourniquet on a severed leg, it can buy you time but you need an hospital at some point
      - majormajor 10mo ago
        Huh? Most people have perfectly well avoided blowing all their money on baseball card packs or whatever other random "box of randomized items" without enduring a life of misery... It's not that hard.
        cassepipe 10mo ago
        > Depending on how your brain got wired Most people are lucky that their brain is cabled somewhat sanely
    - virtue3 10mo ago
      I think it's difficult to just call things "self control" when there have been entire college majors / studies / casinos dedicated to tricking us into making the choices they want. Look at the Apple price ladder on ipads. Look at any tactic by a casino - go to Reno and see many retires at the beginning of the month drop their whole social security check in the casino. Look at why they label things $9.99 instead of $10.00 Look at why they put all the overpriced candy at the cash register in a super market. Look at how they create junk food to be "perfect" and addictive source: https://archive.globalpolicy.org/world-hunger/trade-and-food-production-system/52309-the-extraordinary-science-of-addictive-junk-food.html%3Fitemid=id.html https://archive.globalpolicy.org/world-hunger/trade-and-food... I have a lot of friends that stopped playing gacha games because they would come home drunk - the game would incentivize you to login - and then blow more money than they truly wanted to. At some level it's unfair to say we should just "have self control" when you have entire academic institutions and entire industries figuring out how to get you to "crack" and make a bad decision that favors their pocket book. So yeah - I agree - we need more self control - but it's being purposefully assaulted every second of our day by EVERYTHING.
- TulliusCicero 10mo ago
  There's definitely a double standard in the gaming community where people don't treat TCG packs as ethically fraught in the same way, despite being the same thing.
- gpderetta 10mo ago
  People do compare TCGs to loot crates, in fact calling them the "original" loot crates. Also why "buy singles" has been the mantra for a long time. Aside of gambling, packs have at least a plausible use for limited format.

xinayder 10mo ago

And loot boxes in Valve games never bothered me, because if you want a particular skin you can just buy it off the market. I can't remember being angry at Valve for having loot boxes. All other games require you to keep opening loot boxes to get what you want.

aaarrm 10mo ago
Well not with their battle passes in Dota. They employed a lot of FOMO tactics where you had to spend hundreds to guarantee a set that you'll otherwise never be able to get again.
- patmorgan23 10mo ago
  But again, those are just cosmetic items and there's still a market place for them.