4 ms·

3D printing with unconventional vase mode

65 points by dgroshev 11mo ago

addaon 11mo ago
A lot of these tricks are used to print UAV / RC wings with internal structure, often out of foaming filaments to reduce weight.
- beeflet 11mo ago
  Why not use normal printing techniques with low or no infill? Or just design the parts with internal cavities
  - addaon 11mo ago
    A few reasons. First, foaming filaments, especially PLAs, are very, very, very stringy -- you can't really cut off the feed by stopping the extruder, because the small remnant in the heating head will continue to absorb heat and expand out of the head. So having a single continuous path is almost required for decent quality. Second, minimum weight (both for a given strength, and absolutely) is achieved at a single wall; and vase mode is designed to exactly meet both of those constraints.
ortusdux 11mo ago
There are some great vase mode designs for gridfinity boxes that minimize filament usage and maximize print speed. https://www.printables.com/model/324102-vase-mode-parametric-gridfinity/files https://www.printables.com/model/324102-vase-mode-parametric...
- VorpalWay 11mo ago
  (Original author of the blog post here.) That is a neat design. From what I can tell though, the split base/top is overly complex. You can simply set (in PrusaSlicer at least) the number of layers to print normally before switching to vase mode. Other than that, it seems to deriving strength from having sides that are not flat (same reason a rolled up paper is stiffer than a flat pice of paper), a fairly common trick when working with thin flat material of any kind (e.g. bent metal or cardboard have the same concerns). No "unusual" vase mode tricks that I can see.
stevenhubertron 11mo ago
Vase mode has been around for quite some time and a very popular way to print quickly.
cyclotron3k 11mo ago
Interesting and useful article, but: > If you are new to 3D printing and/or CAD for 3D printing, this is not the right article for you. I feel like I would have been fine with this article about a week into my 3d printing journey.
- VorpalWay 11mo ago
  Original author here. Thanks for the feedback. I always find it hard to determine what audience is appropriate for what I write. In this case I specifically didn't want to spend time on explaining what I consider basic terminology, and as deep as I am into 3D printing it can be hard to know what is at what level.
  - whynotmaybe 11mo ago
    I don't think it's important to specify the target audience's required knowledge or level. I often start to read article outside of my knowledge/competences and yes, often stop because I'm lost in terminology and don't want to read further. But, it also happens that I want to know more and discover what specialists consider "basic knowledge". This is the exact pattern that made me want to read your text. I knew vase mode existed but never cared for it because it's outside of my requirements for 3d printing. Now I know and you explained it perfectly!
  - 7bit 11mo ago
    Just leave that remark out. You're likely to be wrong for the majority of readers. Just let the reader decide whether the article is right or wrong for them.
VorpalWay 11mo ago
Original author of the blog post here. Cool to see that people like this post enough for it to show up on HN (never had a account here until now). If you have questions related to the blog post, feel free ask.
antirez 11mo ago
Some time ago based on the same set of ideas I made this: https://makerworld.com/it/models/99219-olivetti-style-vase-mode-organizer https://makerworld.com/it/models/99219-olivetti-style-vase-m... You can create fast to print objects consuming very little filament, however to have some kind of texture on the surfaces is absolutely needed for strength.
- VorpalWay 11mo ago
  (Original author of the blog post here.) That is a neat model. It seems like unlike printables, makersworld doesn't have a 3D preview on the website (or maybe you need to be logged in, or use an app or something)? As I have a Prusa printer, I have naturally falles into using printables (and Thingyverse back before printables was launched). I will have to download the model and take a proper look in the slicer or CAD program when I'm no longer on my mobile phone. (I will probably not print it, as I'm not currently in the need of a desk organiser, and I don't like wasting plastic.) For the benefit of those who don't know (I assume you do): Texture absolutely helps rigidity in any part, since if the surface is already curved or creased in one direction it resists bending in other directions. (This is why a rolled up paper is stiffer than a sheet.)
  - antirez 11mo ago
    Thank you for your comment! The model can be also found on Printables. I have both an MK4 and a Bambulab A1 :D Thanks.
    - VorpalWay 11mo ago
      Ah, I have a Mk3.9s, and definitely don't need more than one printer. I looked at the model on printables, and have a followup question: why does the slit go all the way through? You can make the first few layers print normal and solid (in fact this is very common), so I'm slightly confused as to why you didn't (it would probably increase the strength a bit).
      - antirez 11mo ago
mg 11mo ago
I often wonder if there should be something like a "folded outline" mode in slicers. For example, it would make the outer left wall of an object: │││││││ │││││││ │││││││ │││││││ Inside of the object │││││││ is here │││││││ │││││││ │││││││ Look like this instead: ┌──── └─────┐ ┌─────┘ └─────┐ Inside of the object ┌─────┘ is here └─────┐ ┌─────┘ └───── The seam (where the print head moves up a layer) could then be on the inside of the object: ┌──── └─────┐ ┌─────┘ └───── <-- Print head moves up here ┌─────┘ └─────┐ ┌─────┘ └───── This might result in having no visible seam but instead evenly distributed vertical lines, similar to the horizontal lines that all 3D prints have. The horizontal lines look quite nice when the print is otherwise perfect. So maybe doing this and having horizontal AND vertical lines would look good overall?
- VorpalWay 11mo ago
  I like this idea. Hiding the seam in a crack or sharp corner (convex or concave) is already a thing, and your idea builds on that. I'm also curious what it would do for part strength. If you offset the zig-zags from layer to layer it will not be as pretty obviously, but it should act like offset bricks in a brick wall. Worth exploring (but I don't have the equipment to test part strength). One effect of this would be to make the print dramatically slower though, you would never get up to max speed due to all the cornering. You could do this sort of pattern already while modelling (though that offset version would be very fiddly). Less practical than the slicer but useful for a quick proof of concept. Thinking about it some more, this is not that far from the existing fuzzy skin pattern already in slicers, and I believe that the relatively obscure slicer IdeaMaker does allow to apply arbitrary textures as height maps on the sides of parts. That could be another way to explore this.
  - cassianoleal 11mo ago
    > If you offset the zig-zags from layer to layer it will not be as pretty It would probably just be a slightly less random fuzzy skin effect. This is an interesting idea but I suspect print times would put most people off.
  - 11mo ago

65 points by dgroshev 11mo ago

addaon 11mo ago

A lot of these tricks are used to print UAV / RC wings with internal structure, often out of foaming filaments to reduce weight.

beeflet 11mo ago
Why not use normal printing techniques with low or no infill? Or just design the parts with internal cavities
- addaon 11mo ago
  A few reasons. First, foaming filaments, especially PLAs, are very, very, very stringy -- you can't really cut off the feed by stopping the extruder, because the small remnant in the heating head will continue to absorb heat and expand out of the head. So having a single continuous path is almost required for decent quality. Second, minimum weight (both for a given strength, and absolutely) is achieved at a single wall; and vase mode is designed to exactly meet both of those constraints.

ortusdux 11mo ago

There are some great vase mode designs for gridfinity boxes that minimize filament usage and maximize print speed. https://www.printables.com/model/324102-vase-mode-parametric-gridfinity/files https://www.printables.com/model/324102-vase-mode-parametric...

VorpalWay 11mo ago
(Original author of the blog post here.) That is a neat design. From what I can tell though, the split base/top is overly complex. You can simply set (in PrusaSlicer at least) the number of layers to print normally before switching to vase mode. Other than that, it seems to deriving strength from having sides that are not flat (same reason a rolled up paper is stiffer than a flat pice of paper), a fairly common trick when working with thin flat material of any kind (e.g. bent metal or cardboard have the same concerns). No "unusual" vase mode tricks that I can see.

stevenhubertron 11mo ago

Vase mode has been around for quite some time and a very popular way to print quickly.

cyclotron3k 11mo ago

Interesting and useful article, but: > If you are new to 3D printing and/or CAD for 3D printing, this is not the right article for you. I feel like I would have been fine with this article about a week into my 3d printing journey.

VorpalWay 11mo ago
Original author here. Thanks for the feedback. I always find it hard to determine what audience is appropriate for what I write. In this case I specifically didn't want to spend time on explaining what I consider basic terminology, and as deep as I am into 3D printing it can be hard to know what is at what level.
- whynotmaybe 11mo ago
  I don't think it's important to specify the target audience's required knowledge or level. I often start to read article outside of my knowledge/competences and yes, often stop because I'm lost in terminology and don't want to read further. But, it also happens that I want to know more and discover what specialists consider "basic knowledge". This is the exact pattern that made me want to read your text. I knew vase mode existed but never cared for it because it's outside of my requirements for 3d printing. Now I know and you explained it perfectly!
- 7bit 11mo ago
  Just leave that remark out. You're likely to be wrong for the majority of readers. Just let the reader decide whether the article is right or wrong for them.

VorpalWay 11mo ago

Original author of the blog post here. Cool to see that people like this post enough for it to show up on HN (never had a account here until now). If you have questions related to the blog post, feel free ask.

antirez 11mo ago

Some time ago based on the same set of ideas I made this: https://makerworld.com/it/models/99219-olivetti-style-vase-mode-organizer https://makerworld.com/it/models/99219-olivetti-style-vase-m... You can create fast to print objects consuming very little filament, however to have some kind of texture on the surfaces is absolutely needed for strength.

VorpalWay 11mo ago
(Original author of the blog post here.) That is a neat model. It seems like unlike printables, makersworld doesn't have a 3D preview on the website (or maybe you need to be logged in, or use an app or something)? As I have a Prusa printer, I have naturally falles into using printables (and Thingyverse back before printables was launched). I will have to download the model and take a proper look in the slicer or CAD program when I'm no longer on my mobile phone. (I will probably not print it, as I'm not currently in the need of a desk organiser, and I don't like wasting plastic.) For the benefit of those who don't know (I assume you do): Texture absolutely helps rigidity in any part, since if the surface is already curved or creased in one direction it resists bending in other directions. (This is why a rolled up paper is stiffer than a sheet.)
- antirez 11mo ago
  Thank you for your comment! The model can be also found on Printables. I have both an MK4 and a Bambulab A1 :D Thanks.
  - VorpalWay 11mo ago
    Ah, I have a Mk3.9s, and definitely don't need more than one printer. I looked at the model on printables, and have a followup question: why does the slit go all the way through? You can make the first few layers print normal and solid (in fact this is very common), so I'm slightly confused as to why you didn't (it would probably increase the strength a bit).
    - antirez 11mo ago

mg 11mo ago

I often wonder if there should be something like a "folded outline" mode in slicers. For example, it would make the outer left wall of an object: │││││││ │││││││ │││││││ │││││││ Inside of the object │││││││ is here │││││││ │││││││ │││││││ Look like this instead: ┌──── └─────┐ ┌─────┘ └─────┐ Inside of the object ┌─────┘ is here └─────┐ ┌─────┘ └───── The seam (where the print head moves up a layer) could then be on the inside of the object: ┌──── └─────┐ ┌─────┘ └───── <-- Print head moves up here ┌─────┘ └─────┐ ┌─────┘ └───── This might result in having no visible seam but instead evenly distributed vertical lines, similar to the horizontal lines that all 3D prints have. The horizontal lines look quite nice when the print is otherwise perfect. So maybe doing this and having horizontal AND vertical lines would look good overall?

VorpalWay 11mo ago
I like this idea. Hiding the seam in a crack or sharp corner (convex or concave) is already a thing, and your idea builds on that. I'm also curious what it would do for part strength. If you offset the zig-zags from layer to layer it will not be as pretty obviously, but it should act like offset bricks in a brick wall. Worth exploring (but I don't have the equipment to test part strength). One effect of this would be to make the print dramatically slower though, you would never get up to max speed due to all the cornering. You could do this sort of pattern already while modelling (though that offset version would be very fiddly). Less practical than the slicer but useful for a quick proof of concept. Thinking about it some more, this is not that far from the existing fuzzy skin pattern already in slicers, and I believe that the relatively obscure slicer IdeaMaker does allow to apply arbitrary textures as height maps on the sides of parts. That could be another way to explore this.
- cassianoleal 11mo ago
  > If you offset the zig-zags from layer to layer it will not be as pretty It would probably just be a slightly less random fuzzy skin effect. This is an interesting idea but I suspect print times would put most people off.
- 11mo ago