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This is what I say a lot. Valve isn't even remotely close to having clean hands here. They invented loot crates. Hats. Etc. It's just that the bar is so INSANE
by atomicnumber3 11mo ago
This is what I say a lot. Valve isn't even remotely close to having clean hands here. They invented loot crates. Hats. Etc.
It's just that the bar is so INSANELY low - it's probably somewhere deep in the earth's core at this point - that valve looks like a fucking angel by being only VAGUELY greedy on occasion.
When your competition is EA... it's not hard.
- tapoxi 11mo ago> They invented loot crates. Hats. Etc. Don't forget the part where they're encouraging kids to gamble with real money on Counter-Strike skins. They rely on an API that Valve freely provides and makes no effort to curtail. But they like Linux and give refunds so they get a free pass.
- jsheard 11mo ago> and give refunds so they get a free pass. They only begrudgingly conceded refunds in 2015 after the no-refunds policy they had maintained for 12 years was found to be illegal in Australia.
- nananana9 11mo agoThey made the new refund policy worldwide, which they absolutely did not have to.
- jsheard 11mo agoSure, but I imagine they saw the dominoes falling and realized that the optics of going down kicking and screaming in endless battles against basic consumer rights would be exceptionally bad. If they hadn't fully conceded then the EU would have been up their ass too before long.
- aranelsurion 11mo ago> kicking and screaming in endless battles against basic consumer rights “Apple has entered the chat.” There are so many examples of other companies doing exactly that.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- mikkupikku 11mo agoWhatever the reason for their policy, it provides a nice sense of safety to Linux gamers. They can buy the game without worrying about compatibility; if the game doesn't run then its two clicks for an automated refund.
- protimewaster 11mo agoAlso, competing stores like EA's Origin had a pretty friendly refund policy before Valve did, helping to put some pressure on Valve.
- rockskon 11mo agoI seem to recall Origin initially reserving the right to revoke your license to play games you purchased after a few years of inactivity.
- abustamam 11mo agoClassic EA. "Oh, you haven't played this game in a while. You should pay us again if you wanna play it again. Give you a sense of pride and accomplishment!" (reference for those who haven't seen it https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/comment/dppum98 https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b... )
- protimewaster 10mo agoAFAIK Steam has this too. The Subscriber Agreement clearly states that you're not guaranteed continued, free access to Steam. If they decided they wanted to charge you to access games you already bought, they could.
- jchw 11mo agoI truly believe that Valve has two fundamental things working in their favor: Firstly: Despite inventing or at least popularizing a lot of new microtransaction concepts, they've just never been the greediest company in the business when it comes to microtransactions. Mobile gacha games have cleaned up their business quite a lot lately, with most of them being significantly less predatory than they used to be, but even back when TF2 introduced lootboxes and hats, the important thing was that the game was not pay to win; you could get all of the items in relatively short order just by playing, and the only benefit to paying was cosmetics. Contrast this to the earlier reign of Korean MMOs: pretty much all of them had egregious microtransactions. MapleStory, PangYa, Gunbound, etc, and even some current platforms like Roblox. Valve also came into this whole thing before lootboxes became the root of all evil, and while TF2's lootbox mechanism looks bad in retrospect, there was simply no stigma against a system like that, and it never felt like a big deal during the game's heyday. Just my opinion, but I strongly believe it to be true. Secondly: The most egregious things going on are not things Valve is directly involved in, they are merely complicit, in that they don't do much to curtail it. It's not even necessarily cynical to say that Valve is turning a blind eye, they benefit so significantly from the egregious behavior that it is hard to believe they are not influenced by this fact. But: It is consistent with Valve's behavior in other ways: Valve has taken a very hands-off stance in many places, and if it weren't for external factors it seems likely they would be even more hands-off than they are now. I think they genuinely take the position that it's not their job to enforce moral standards, and if you really do take this position seriously it is going to wind up looking extremely bad when you benefit from it. It's not so dissimilar from the position that Cloudflare tries to take with its services: it's hard to pick apart what may be people with power trying to uphold ideals even when it is optically poor versus greedy companies intentionally turning a blind eye because it might enrich them. (And yes, I do understand that these sites violate Valve's own ToS, but so does a lot of things on Steam Workshop and elsewhere. In many cases, they really do seem consistently lax as long as there isn't significant external pressure.) Despite these two things, there is a nagging feeling that every company gives me that I should never take anything but a cynical view on them, because almost all companies are basically lawnmowers now. But I really do not feel like I only give Valve the benefit of the doubt just because they support Linux; I actually feel like Valve has done a substantial amount to prove that they are not just another lawnmower. After all, while they definitely are substantially enriched by tolerating misuse of their APIs, they've probably also gotten themselves into tons of trouble by continuing to have a very hands-off attitude. In fact, it seems like owing to the relatively high standards people have for Valve, they get criticized and punished more for conduct than other companies. I mean seriously, Valve has gotten absolutely reamed for their attempt at adding an arbitration clause into their ToS, with consequences that lingered long after they removed and cancelled the arbitration clause. And I do hate that they even tried it -- but what's crazy to me is that it was already basically standard in big tech licensing agreements. Virtually everyone has an insane "you can't sue us" rule in their ToS. It numbs my mind to try to understand why Valve was one of the first and only companies to face punishment for this. It wouldn't numb my mind at all if it was happening to all of them, but plenty of these arbitration clauses persist today! So when I consider all of this, I think Valve is an alright company. They're not saints, but even if the bar wasn't so terribly low, they'd probably still be above average overall. That can be true simultaneously with them still having bad practices that we don't all like.
- Hikikomori 11mo agoThe same api users use?
- koolala 11mo agoa social chat interface where bots pretend to be humans. so its a UI not a API yeah
- cornhole 11mo agothere are worse capitalists to give money to
- tarsinge 11mo agoYes everybody is trying to find rational reasons but to me like in recent politics a lot has to do with irrational tribalism. I stumbled on an article of Gabe talking about his new yacht[0] and it made me realize he is not different than other billionaire (and maybe worst than average because he doesn’t even give to charity). But he looks like he is "one of us" and he likes Linux, so it’s okay. Would gamers keep the rose colored glasses if Valve was exactly the same but the CEO was a business suit style type? [0] https://fortune.com/2025/11/17/gabe-newell-leviathan-superyacht-features-submarine-garage-hospital-spa-gaming-pcs-inkfish-oceanco/ https://fortune.com/2025/11/17/gabe-newell-leviathan-superya...
- rpdillon 11mo agoIt isn't tribalism, at least not from my side. There's a tangible, noticeable, immediate difference between buying a piece of hardware from Valve and buying a piece of hardware from Google or Apple. I really resented Valve after the Steam box debacle that left me with a $1,200 paperweight, but since then, they've done enormous amounts of work to regain my trust through tangible increases in the quality of the gaming experience, including not having to use Windows to game anymore, and providing me with open hardware that I can install whatever I want on, including using their hardware as my own personal PC when e.g. traveling. Its weird to me that people choose what companies to buy from on the basis of whether or not the CEO owns a yacht or how rich he is. That is not the operative criteria when I choose what products to buy, but rather how well that product suits my needs and how much I trust the relationship with the company that produced it. Valve is just miles ahead of every other manufacturer in this regard.
- wiredpancake 11mo agoI'm not sure what you are trying to suggest. What does it matter if Gabe has a yacht? He has multiple of them. Gabe also have an undersea research company called Inkfish, which is a non-profit company designed to "conduct deep-sea research and explore, map, and study the least-explored parts of the ocean". In 2020 he donated $300,000 to the Starship Children's Hospital. In 2020 Gabe Newell arranging free concert for New Zealand. In 2014 Gabe founded a Racing Team which helps support Grassroots motorsports, the Heart of Racing Team also supports the Seattle Children's Hospital. Game is also the co-founder of a company called foundry10, which is an education research organization focused on youth philanthropy. Gabe is not the evil person you are trying to make him out to be. He has visited numerous schools, colleges and universities and done free talks out of goodwill. He has put millions into research and development of Linux software for the bettering of Linux community as a whole. He doesn't "Just like Linux", through his investments and care for the Linux community, Valve has made Linux a viable gaming platform, which it would be likely a decade behind without his investments.
- ecshafer 11mo agoThe difference is that valve loot crates/hats have also always been tradeable, and Ive never had to buy them or suffer a disasvantage.
- tpxl 11mo agoTF2 hats used to bring an advantage until about a decade ago.
- BlueTemplar 11mo agoOh - were they already tradeable ?
- OoooooooO 11mo agoAll items had stats / skill changes, no?
- super256 11mo agoThat is simply not true. Hats have always been cosmetics only. Some unusual hats even give you a disadvantage as they broadcast your position through sounds.
- Thorrez 11mo agoThis video describes how, in the past, certain item sets, which included hats, gave stats boosts when worn together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZDIqnS0FcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZDIqnS0FcI
- super256 11mo agoThe author is completely ignoring that you didn't have to BUY these hats. For example, you could (and still can) craft the Milkman hat with 1 refined metal + 1 special delivery weapon.
- rl3 11mo ago>It's just that the bar is so INSANELY low - it's probably somewhere deep in the earth's core at this point - ... Sounds like we need someone to.. raise the bar.
- jefftk 11mo agoWhat's wrong with hats?
- conorcleary 11mo agolice
- GuB-42 11mo agoYou don't become a billionaire by having your hands clean. But what set them appart to other companies is that they go out of their way not to be hostile to their users. Loot boxes done well are not user hostile, players pay because they like them, and sure, it uses all the tricks from the gambling industry to get as most money as they can, but player don't feel scammed or considering it an obstacle to their goals. It is just an additional feature they may or may not use. Compare to say, locking part of the game behind a paid DLC, players don't like that, they feel forced. Same end goal, that is to make their money your money, but the latter is considered hostile. And ads, Steam is full of ads, from recommendations to the store page showing up right as you launch steam. But they won't put a popup between you and your game. They show you the ads you want to see... And you buy games you wouldn't have bought otherwise. And Steam has DRM, that's weak DRM, but effective at what it does, and importantly, if you bought the games legally, you won't even notice, contrary to some other company intrusive practices.
- awill 11mo agoI have a super high opinion of Valve. Sure, they have loot crates. But sensible people don't buy them. I guess you could blame them for having it in the first place. That's fair I guess. But I've never for a second considered buying any of that junk. I just buy single player offline games with no IAP, and Steam is amazing. It's a million miles ahead of the competitors, and it's really surprising that EA/Ubi etc.. try to compete but don't get the reason they're losing. They screw customers and then act surprised that customers hate them.
- m12k 11mo agoThey've hedged their bets by making, and selling, both games whose monetization is exploitative and non-exploitative
- nolok 11mo agoThe problem with loot crates, and the reason why they're being slowly regulated against in several places, is that "sensible people don't buy them" has never stopped people to lose their life to gambling.
- jakeec 11mo agoI hope everyone who is so outspoken about loot crates are also fighting for TCG packs to be banned/regulated because they are literally the same level of "gambling".
- iinnPP 11mo agoLet's not forget mystery boxes for real toys and things like mini brands. Though I am not outspoken about it, I think individuals need to come to terms with telling themselves no. Otherwise we need to outlaw everything bad and open to abuse to specific individuals. Things such as cake, donuts, coffee, etc.
- rpdillon 11mo ago> Though I am not outspoken about it, I think individuals need to come to terms with telling themselves no. This really resonates with me. I feel like self-control has gone out of fashion, but it has a lot of merit.
- RobotToaster 11mo agoIt's amazing that an always-on DRM company can become the "good guy" by staying the same level of asshole they've always been, while every other company became much worse assholes.
- BlueTemplar 11mo agoSteam isn't always-on DRM. For instance Valve's own games don't have any. Their worst failure is allowing games with Denuvo on their store.
- account42 11mo agoSteam itself is DRM, especially when games depend on it to even run, which many of Valve's games do. They don't have additional DRM on top of that but why would they when they already control Steam.
- jakeec 11mo agoBecause in practice that "always-on DRM" is actually just purely an advantage for the customer with zero downsides. It only sounds like you're making a good point when you frame "provides the best shopping and library experience in gaming" in the least charitable way possible. The Valve hate-boner is so weird.
- ndriscoll 11mo agoThere are disadvantages. e.g. if you don't want to update a program (maybe the new version breaks your modded setup), too bad. Or if you need Windows still for compatibility, it no longer supports Windows 7, so you have to go hunting for old versions of the client and fiddle with it to prevent updates (if that still even works), at which point you'd might as well just mod it to remove the DRM instead. Basically, it creates a failure point for setups that should otherwise last and be stable several more decades.
- patmorgan23 11mo agoCan't you run old versions by setting the version in the game properties?
- jakeec 11mo ago> They invented loot crates. Hats. Etc. You listed one thing. What's the "etc."?
- TulliusCicero 11mo agoOn a personal level I just don't give a shit about the loot crates or cosmetic stuff because I don't buy them, they hold no interest for me, and they typically don't impact gameplay. I acknowledge that there's a legitimate ethical concern there the same way there is for, say, Magic the Gathering or other card games. But much like MtG, I can't bring myself to be all that upset about it.
- Perepiska 11mo ago> They invented loot crates It looks like false without sources.