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I'm trying to figure out if someone is arguing that this proves the Nazis were socialists that this is published on Substack?

by th0ma5 11mo ago

hunterpayne 11mo ago
A nit, the word socialists is actually in the acronym (ie in the name). Fascism actually is a descendant of socialist ideology and Mussolini was a Socialist before inventing Fascism. Concepts of left and right only have meaning in one political unit at one point in time. The axis we use to judge right and left changes from time to time and is different in different places. Also, some fascist policies are similar to policies in socialist societies. And some policies are very different between the two. So the debate implied in your question, like most debates, comes down to the definitions of words. This is why it isn't all that helpful to base political ideologies on history farther back than one human lifetime. The writers often meant something different than you think they did.
- thrance 11mo ago
  In what qualities was Mussolini a socialist? Anti-capitalism never passionated him much. Indeed, he had a lot of support from the capitalist class, which he gladly took. Similarly, one of the first things the nazis did upon gaining power, was to arrest all communist and socialists, and make unions illegal within Germany. Your mixing up of the two concepts is wrong and unhelpful. Certainly, the Soviet State was fascist in many aspects. But many fascist states emerge from capitalist economies, with help from the capitalist class.
- krapp 11mo ago
  >A nit, the word socialists is actually in the acronym (ie in the name). Context, as always, matters. The Nazis were not socialist, they were infamously and violently anti-socialist. The reason "socialist" was in the name was that Hitler wanted to reframe the concept of socialism around nationalist and racist tenets. Hitler himself explained his rationale in a magazine interview[0,1]: “Socialism is the science of dealing with the common wealth. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic... We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfillment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one.” [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/18twsvk/why_did_the_nazi_party_use_socialist_in_its/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/18twsvk/why_... [1] https://archive.is/usjmJ#selection-2535.0-2539.363 https://archive.is/usjmJ#selection-2535.0-2539.363

I'm trying to figure out if someone is arguing that this proves the Nazis were socialists that this is published on Substack?

by th0ma5 11mo ago

I'm trying to figure out if someone is arguing that this proves the Nazis were socialists that this is published on Substack?

hunterpayne 11mo ago

A nit, the word socialists is actually in the acronym (ie in the name). Fascism actually is a descendant of socialist ideology and Mussolini was a Socialist before inventing Fascism. Concepts of left and right only have meaning in one political unit at one point in time. The axis we use to judge right and left changes from time to time and is different in different places. Also, some fascist policies are similar to policies in socialist societies. And some policies are very different between the two. So the debate implied in your question, like most debates, comes down to the definitions of words. This is why it isn't all that helpful to base political ideologies on history farther back than one human lifetime. The writers often meant something different than you think they did.

thrance 11mo ago
In what qualities was Mussolini a socialist? Anti-capitalism never passionated him much. Indeed, he had a lot of support from the capitalist class, which he gladly took. Similarly, one of the first things the nazis did upon gaining power, was to arrest all communist and socialists, and make unions illegal within Germany. Your mixing up of the two concepts is wrong and unhelpful. Certainly, the Soviet State was fascist in many aspects. But many fascist states emerge from capitalist economies, with help from the capitalist class.
krapp 11mo ago
>A nit, the word socialists is actually in the acronym (ie in the name). Context, as always, matters. The Nazis were not socialist, they were infamously and violently anti-socialist. The reason "socialist" was in the name was that Hitler wanted to reframe the concept of socialism around nationalist and racist tenets. Hitler himself explained his rationale in a magazine interview[0,1]: “Socialism is the science of dealing with the common wealth. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic... We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfillment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one.” [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/18twsvk/why_did_the_nazi_party_use_socialist_in_its/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/18twsvk/why_... [1] https://archive.is/usjmJ#selection-2535.0-2539.363 https://archive.is/usjmJ#selection-2535.0-2539.363