4 ms·

decades ago, this scenario occured with a highschool hangaround. he was drunk and high, came back from a party, actually broke in through his nieghbours door,

by rolph 11mo ago

decades ago, this scenario occured with a highschool hangaround. he was drunk and high, came back from a party, actually broke in through his nieghbours door, 3 doors away, and encountered a 70 some year old cowering man who fearedfor life and safety, stabbed him and nearly killed him. police closed the "case" and both parties charges were dismissed. it would have been different if the door wasnt breached. in the case in topic, it would have been different if both parties announced themselves, and cleaner took the hint from google map inconsistencies. Even if a building, is suppossed to be empty, or unoccupied, Always confirm with your client you are at the right place, Announce Yourself, and avoid costly mistaken jobsite identification. the blame goes all around here. we have similar stand your ground laws where i am, and we call people, or call out while "walking up on someone" we are also not allowed to carry on someone private property unless explicit, and enduring permission is given by the owner/controller of the property.

Jtsummers 11mo ago
> the blame goes all around here. A man shoots through a closed and locked door that no one is actually knocking down, and you think the housecleaner fumbling through keys on the porch is at all to blame for her own death? He was a paranoid coward who probably would have killed a neighbor kid one day if he hadn't killed her first. > we have similar stand your ground laws where i am, and we call people, or call out while "walking up on someone" You actually shout this when walking down the street behind someone? What a terrible place you must live in.
- rolph 11mo ago
  its called alaska, and as i said, the blame goes all around, its called a swiss cheese failure, in HN parlance. numerous mistakes by numerous parties combine, to culminate in failure and consequence. here in alaska, you dont just assume, you have the right place, you take measures to be sure you are where you actually think you are. that means when you walk onto private property not your own, you call out to make contact, and you dont carry a firearm onto property unless given specific permission to do so.
  - Jtsummers 11mo ago
    In the rest of the country, we usually call shooting unarmed people who happened to go to the wrong house and killing them "murder". She was not breaking into the house, she was not armed, she was not threatening him in any way. He lived in a neighborhood (look at the photo of the house). People go to the wrong house all the time in neighborhoods, the normal response is not to shoot them (I doubt this is even normal in Alaska as you seem to be saying it is). The normal, not paranoid coward, response is to ignore them or turn them away.
    - rolph 11mo ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model google errors, wrong house, no confirmation of address, trying keys at door, twitchy gun owner, stand your ground laws, political climate. these all combine to create a disasterous outcome.
      - rramadass 11mo ago
        From the article; After the shooting, Andersen told investigators he had previously watched videos about what to do if someone tries to enter your home and had devised a plan for a potential break-in, according to court records. Convinced that was happening, he did not approach the door, turn on a light or call out, court records state. Instead, he allegedly moved to the room he called his “safe room,” unlocked a Pelican case and loaded his Glock pistol. Note: he did not approach the door, turn on a light or call out, court records state. All he had to do was yell out loudly, turn on the lights or do something to let whoever was outside know that somebody was inside and armed. Instead he just shot without any notice.
        rolph 11mo ago
        All he had to do was yell out loudly, turn on the lights or do something to let whoever was -inside know that someone was outside looking for a jobsite. for that matter when you try to enter someone elses house with a key, it normally starts with 'knockknock/ringring "hello smalltime cleaning service im looking for 123 circle boulevard to mop and dust, joe gave me keys, is any one home?" we have housecleaners up here too, and they are very big on a prolonged contact attempt, when its a "walk-in job" thats because if you dont, you are doing what home invaders do, and all you have to do is attempt verbal contact even if you think noone is there, and you have the right place. its seatbelt simple. same the other way, " i dont know you, i didnt ask for service your acting like a burglar, go away from my door, and leave" thats how we do it up here, police are hours, sometimes days away from responding to emergency calls
lawlessone 11mo ago
>Always confirm with your client you are at the right place maybe you don't intend this , but sounds like victim blaming.
- rolph 11mo ago
  every thing that went wrong would have been nullified, with one phone call, a phone call that is common place practice when making housecalls. everything that went wrong could have been nullified by heed the reality that actions or inactions have consequences. providing wrong map info, trusting sketchy information sources, lack of clear communication of purpose, and intent. lack of contact, with humans to confirm or verify. its more than a victims contribution, there are second and third parties to look at.
  - lawlessone 11mo ago
    maybe they guy shooting could have just talked to them? stop excusing murder.

by rolph 11mo ago

Jtsummers 11mo ago

> the blame goes all around here. A man shoots through a closed and locked door that no one is actually knocking down, and you think the housecleaner fumbling through keys on the porch is at all to blame for her own death? He was a paranoid coward who probably would have killed a neighbor kid one day if he hadn't killed her first. > we have similar stand your ground laws where i am, and we call people, or call out while "walking up on someone" You actually shout this when walking down the street behind someone? What a terrible place you must live in.

rolph 11mo ago
its called alaska, and as i said, the blame goes all around, its called a swiss cheese failure, in HN parlance. numerous mistakes by numerous parties combine, to culminate in failure and consequence. here in alaska, you dont just assume, you have the right place, you take measures to be sure you are where you actually think you are. that means when you walk onto private property not your own, you call out to make contact, and you dont carry a firearm onto property unless given specific permission to do so.
- Jtsummers 11mo ago
  In the rest of the country, we usually call shooting unarmed people who happened to go to the wrong house and killing them "murder". She was not breaking into the house, she was not armed, she was not threatening him in any way. He lived in a neighborhood (look at the photo of the house). People go to the wrong house all the time in neighborhoods, the normal response is not to shoot them (I doubt this is even normal in Alaska as you seem to be saying it is). The normal, not paranoid coward, response is to ignore them or turn them away.
  - rolph 11mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model google errors, wrong house, no confirmation of address, trying keys at door, twitchy gun owner, stand your ground laws, political climate. these all combine to create a disasterous outcome.
    - rramadass 11mo ago
      From the article; After the shooting, Andersen told investigators he had previously watched videos about what to do if someone tries to enter your home and had devised a plan for a potential break-in, according to court records. Convinced that was happening, he did not approach the door, turn on a light or call out, court records state. Instead, he allegedly moved to the room he called his “safe room,” unlocked a Pelican case and loaded his Glock pistol. Note: he did not approach the door, turn on a light or call out, court records state. All he had to do was yell out loudly, turn on the lights or do something to let whoever was outside know that somebody was inside and armed. Instead he just shot without any notice.
      - rolph 11mo ago
        All he had to do was yell out loudly, turn on the lights or do something to let whoever was -inside know that someone was outside looking for a jobsite. for that matter when you try to enter someone elses house with a key, it normally starts with 'knockknock/ringring "hello smalltime cleaning service im looking for 123 circle boulevard to mop and dust, joe gave me keys, is any one home?" we have housecleaners up here too, and they are very big on a prolonged contact attempt, when its a "walk-in job" thats because if you dont, you are doing what home invaders do, and all you have to do is attempt verbal contact even if you think noone is there, and you have the right place. its seatbelt simple. same the other way, " i dont know you, i didnt ask for service your acting like a burglar, go away from my door, and leave" thats how we do it up here, police are hours, sometimes days away from responding to emergency calls

lawlessone 11mo ago

>Always confirm with your client you are at the right place maybe you don't intend this , but sounds like victim blaming.

rolph 11mo ago
every thing that went wrong would have been nullified, with one phone call, a phone call that is common place practice when making housecalls. everything that went wrong could have been nullified by heed the reality that actions or inactions have consequences. providing wrong map info, trusting sketchy information sources, lack of clear communication of purpose, and intent. lack of contact, with humans to confirm or verify. its more than a victims contribution, there are second and third parties to look at.
- lawlessone 11mo ago
  maybe they guy shooting could have just talked to them? stop excusing murder.