5 ms·

Say some young folk is coming back home very wasted after a good night party, and mistakes his house. The fact that it depends on the good or bad judgement of h

by j1elo 11mo ago

Say some young folk is coming back home very wasted after a good night party, and mistakes his house. The fact that it depends on the good or bad judgement of his neighbor to end up dead that night, is objectively not something that makes society better. Why are people even allowed to wield a gun without due process and frequent psycho-technical test evaluations? (so as to not get into the "why at all" question). My instinct here (as a non-american) is that if you're allowing citizens to have firearms, it ought at least to be only for those best prepared to evaluate conditions and situations, not anyone who's been watching YouTube videos as a poor-man's replacement for proper training.

rolph 11mo ago
decades ago, this scenario occured with a highschool hangaround. he was drunk and high, came back from a party, actually broke in through his nieghbours door, 3 doors away, and encountered a 70 some year old cowering man who fearedfor life and safety, stabbed him and nearly killed him. police closed the "case" and both parties charges were dismissed. it would have been different if the door wasnt breached. in the case in topic, it would have been different if both parties announced themselves, and cleaner took the hint from google map inconsistencies. Even if a building, is suppossed to be empty, or unoccupied, Always confirm with your client you are at the right place, Announce Yourself, and avoid costly mistaken jobsite identification. the blame goes all around here. we have similar stand your ground laws where i am, and we call people, or call out while "walking up on someone" we are also not allowed to carry on someone private property unless explicit, and enduring permission is given by the owner/controller of the property.
- Jtsummers 11mo ago
  > the blame goes all around here. A man shoots through a closed and locked door that no one is actually knocking down, and you think the housecleaner fumbling through keys on the porch is at all to blame for her own death? He was a paranoid coward who probably would have killed a neighbor kid one day if he hadn't killed her first. > we have similar stand your ground laws where i am, and we call people, or call out while "walking up on someone" You actually shout this when walking down the street behind someone? What a terrible place you must live in.
  - rolph 11mo ago
    its called alaska, and as i said, the blame goes all around, its called a swiss cheese failure, in HN parlance. numerous mistakes by numerous parties combine, to culminate in failure and consequence. here in alaska, you dont just assume, you have the right place, you take measures to be sure you are where you actually think you are. that means when you walk onto private property not your own, you call out to make contact, and you dont carry a firearm onto property unless given specific permission to do so.
    - Jtsummers 11mo ago
      In the rest of the country, we usually call shooting unarmed people who happened to go to the wrong house and killing them "murder". She was not breaking into the house, she was not armed, she was not threatening him in any way. He lived in a neighborhood (look at the photo of the house). People go to the wrong house all the time in neighborhoods, the normal response is not to shoot them (I doubt this is even normal in Alaska as you seem to be saying it is). The normal, not paranoid coward, response is to ignore them or turn them away.
      - rolph 11mo ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model google errors, wrong house, no confirmation of address, trying keys at door, twitchy gun owner, stand your ground laws, political climate. these all combine to create a disasterous outcome.
        rramadass 11mo ago
        From the article; After the shooting, Andersen told investigators he had previously watched videos about what to do if someone tries to enter your home and had devised a plan for a potential break-in, according to court records. Convinced that was happening, he did not approach the door, turn on a light or call out, court records state. Instead, he allegedly moved to the room he called his “safe room,” unlocked a Pelican case and loaded his Glock pistol. Note: he did not approach the door, turn on a light or call out, court records state. All he had to do was yell out loudly, turn on the lights or do something to let whoever was outside know that somebody was inside and armed. Instead he just shot without any notice.
- lawlessone 11mo ago
  >Always confirm with your client you are at the right place maybe you don't intend this , but sounds like victim blaming.
  - rolph 11mo ago
    every thing that went wrong would have been nullified, with one phone call, a phone call that is common place practice when making housecalls. everything that went wrong could have been nullified by heed the reality that actions or inactions have consequences. providing wrong map info, trusting sketchy information sources, lack of clear communication of purpose, and intent. lack of contact, with humans to confirm or verify. its more than a victims contribution, there are second and third parties to look at.
    - lawlessone 11mo ago
      maybe they guy shooting could have just talked to them? stop excusing murder.
knowitnone3 11mo ago
Americans have this thing called the Constitution which states citizens have the right to bear arms. Now, when you allow government to make subjective decisions about who can own and who can't, it's no longer a right and nobody can have guns but criminals somehow always find a gun. If you know anything about what happened, you will find the shooter is actually a very normal person and not some gun nut so any amount of psych testing wouldn't have found anything. What happened was wrong and both sides could have done better to avoid such a situation. Doesn't really matter because shooter is going to jail. And many state do background checks when selling firearms so it's not like a felon can just walk in and buy a gun. But when you're not a felon, how do you predict a person's future behavior by some magic questionnaire?
- toomuchtodo 11mo ago
  We should potentially revisit the second amendment, considering gun deaths. The Constitution is a living document, and perhaps enough unnecessary deaths are occurring to warrant a fix. Maybe it should be a privilege versus a right. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/03/05/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/03/05/what-the-... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts... (Gun suicide rates are at record highs, but gun murder rates have dipped)
- Y_Y 11mo ago
  And what about inflation preventing well-organised militias from forming? There ought to be a federal gun credit for every man, woman and child!
- chillingeffect 11mo ago
  The 2nd amendment is different from the Castle doctrine. You can have the 1st one without the 2nd one. A militia to deter occupiers is different from protecting one's own house. And cases like this go beyond the Castle doctrine. This made had no legit fear for his life. Wiggling keys in a door and jiggling door handle don't equal legit fear. You have to at least identify a threat. This shooter was irresponsible and wrecked it for many other responsible people. Government will use this to weaken individuals' 2A rights.
tstrimple 11mo ago
Reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T-pVFp3qY4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T-pVFp3qY4 Guy in Scotland gets drunk at a party and stumbles back into the wrong house and falls asleep on their couch. Greeted in the morning by strangers offering him coffee and a cigarette and everyone having a laugh about it. That's much more like the world I'd prefer to live in than whatever the fuck is wrong with this country and 40% of its population.
- Jtsummers 11mo ago
  > That's much more like the world I'd prefer to live in than whatever the fuck is wrong with this country and 40% of its population. Agreed, when I had this happen to me (once with a dorm in college, another time in an apartment) I just kicked the guy out, didn't give him coffee. Unlike rolph, my first thought wasn't, "I know, I should shoot this guy sleeping on my couch." What a sad world some people exist in and want to spread to the rest of the world.

by j1elo 11mo ago

rolph 11mo ago

decades ago, this scenario occured with a highschool hangaround. he was drunk and high, came back from a party, actually broke in through his nieghbours door, 3 doors away, and encountered a 70 some year old cowering man who fearedfor life and safety, stabbed him and nearly killed him. police closed the "case" and both parties charges were dismissed. it would have been different if the door wasnt breached. in the case in topic, it would have been different if both parties announced themselves, and cleaner took the hint from google map inconsistencies. Even if a building, is suppossed to be empty, or unoccupied, Always confirm with your client you are at the right place, Announce Yourself, and avoid costly mistaken jobsite identification. the blame goes all around here. we have similar stand your ground laws where i am, and we call people, or call out while "walking up on someone" we are also not allowed to carry on someone private property unless explicit, and enduring permission is given by the owner/controller of the property.

Jtsummers 11mo ago
> the blame goes all around here. A man shoots through a closed and locked door that no one is actually knocking down, and you think the housecleaner fumbling through keys on the porch is at all to blame for her own death? He was a paranoid coward who probably would have killed a neighbor kid one day if he hadn't killed her first. > we have similar stand your ground laws where i am, and we call people, or call out while "walking up on someone" You actually shout this when walking down the street behind someone? What a terrible place you must live in.
- rolph 11mo ago
  its called alaska, and as i said, the blame goes all around, its called a swiss cheese failure, in HN parlance. numerous mistakes by numerous parties combine, to culminate in failure and consequence. here in alaska, you dont just assume, you have the right place, you take measures to be sure you are where you actually think you are. that means when you walk onto private property not your own, you call out to make contact, and you dont carry a firearm onto property unless given specific permission to do so.
  - Jtsummers 11mo ago
    In the rest of the country, we usually call shooting unarmed people who happened to go to the wrong house and killing them "murder". She was not breaking into the house, she was not armed, she was not threatening him in any way. He lived in a neighborhood (look at the photo of the house). People go to the wrong house all the time in neighborhoods, the normal response is not to shoot them (I doubt this is even normal in Alaska as you seem to be saying it is). The normal, not paranoid coward, response is to ignore them or turn them away.
    - rolph 11mo ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model google errors, wrong house, no confirmation of address, trying keys at door, twitchy gun owner, stand your ground laws, political climate. these all combine to create a disasterous outcome.
      - rramadass 11mo ago
        From the article; After the shooting, Andersen told investigators he had previously watched videos about what to do if someone tries to enter your home and had devised a plan for a potential break-in, according to court records. Convinced that was happening, he did not approach the door, turn on a light or call out, court records state. Instead, he allegedly moved to the room he called his “safe room,” unlocked a Pelican case and loaded his Glock pistol. Note: he did not approach the door, turn on a light or call out, court records state. All he had to do was yell out loudly, turn on the lights or do something to let whoever was outside know that somebody was inside and armed. Instead he just shot without any notice.
lawlessone 11mo ago
>Always confirm with your client you are at the right place maybe you don't intend this , but sounds like victim blaming.
- rolph 11mo ago
  every thing that went wrong would have been nullified, with one phone call, a phone call that is common place practice when making housecalls. everything that went wrong could have been nullified by heed the reality that actions or inactions have consequences. providing wrong map info, trusting sketchy information sources, lack of clear communication of purpose, and intent. lack of contact, with humans to confirm or verify. its more than a victims contribution, there are second and third parties to look at.
  - lawlessone 11mo ago
    maybe they guy shooting could have just talked to them? stop excusing murder.

knowitnone3 11mo ago

Americans have this thing called the Constitution which states citizens have the right to bear arms. Now, when you allow government to make subjective decisions about who can own and who can't, it's no longer a right and nobody can have guns but criminals somehow always find a gun. If you know anything about what happened, you will find the shooter is actually a very normal person and not some gun nut so any amount of psych testing wouldn't have found anything. What happened was wrong and both sides could have done better to avoid such a situation. Doesn't really matter because shooter is going to jail. And many state do background checks when selling firearms so it's not like a felon can just walk in and buy a gun. But when you're not a felon, how do you predict a person's future behavior by some magic questionnaire?

toomuchtodo 11mo ago
We should potentially revisit the second amendment, considering gun deaths. The Constitution is a living document, and perhaps enough unnecessary deaths are occurring to warrant a fix. Maybe it should be a privilege versus a right. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/03/05/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/03/05/what-the-... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts... (Gun suicide rates are at record highs, but gun murder rates have dipped)
Y_Y 11mo ago
And what about inflation preventing well-organised militias from forming? There ought to be a federal gun credit for every man, woman and child!
chillingeffect 11mo ago
The 2nd amendment is different from the Castle doctrine. You can have the 1st one without the 2nd one. A militia to deter occupiers is different from protecting one's own house. And cases like this go beyond the Castle doctrine. This made had no legit fear for his life. Wiggling keys in a door and jiggling door handle don't equal legit fear. You have to at least identify a threat. This shooter was irresponsible and wrecked it for many other responsible people. Government will use this to weaken individuals' 2A rights.

tstrimple 11mo ago

Reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T-pVFp3qY4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T-pVFp3qY4 Guy in Scotland gets drunk at a party and stumbles back into the wrong house and falls asleep on their couch. Greeted in the morning by strangers offering him coffee and a cigarette and everyone having a laugh about it. That's much more like the world I'd prefer to live in than whatever the fuck is wrong with this country and 40% of its population.

Jtsummers 11mo ago
> That's much more like the world I'd prefer to live in than whatever the fuck is wrong with this country and 40% of its population. Agreed, when I had this happen to me (once with a dorm in college, another time in an apartment) I just kicked the guy out, didn't give him coffee. Unlike rolph, my first thought wasn't, "I know, I should shoot this guy sleeping on my couch." What a sad world some people exist in and want to spread to the rest of the world.