7 ms·

3-D Printer Company Seizes Machine From Desktop Gunsmith

43 points by sakai 14y ago

rorrr 14y ago
That will surely stop him (and others).
- krasin 14y ago
  surely not although, I don't see the point to use a 3d printer there. an advanced CNC routing machine will make better gun parts.
  - joeycfan 14y ago
    This.
  - mahyarm 14y ago
    If this is about the affordability of 3d printers, couldn't a desktop CNC machine do something similar? You can buy one on amazon.com for $350-ish: http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Toolworks-CNC-Carving-Machine/dp/B002ARTLUG%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-z-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB002ARTLUG http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Toolworks-CNC-Carving-Machine/dp/B... I don't know if it would be adequate, but it has a working space bigger than some pocket pistols for sale today. Guns are relatively simple machines with forms existing for a century still sold new today. Such as bolt action rifles.
    - sbierwagen 14y ago
      1.) That's about a thousand dollars short of a functional CNC mill. NOT INCLUDED - This is just the CNC machine with motors. You will need a 3 Axis Stepper Motor Driver to manage each motor, a spindle/cutter (a Dremel would work) and a DC power supply for the driver. You will also need a computer with a standard printer port and CNC software. - You will also need a way to mount and secure the spindle/cutter tightly to the Z-axis plate on the machine. 2.) It can't mill metal. 3.) A mill's the wrong tool for a barrel. You'd use a lathe for that, and even then it'd be smoothbore, without the tool to cut rifling.
      - krasin 14y ago
        re 3) the only regulated (in US) gun part is the lower receiver which looks like this: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11669 http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11669 A mill is the right tool for that (though, it's tricky and some manual work will be required) A barrel is available for online purchase (in US) No problem here. For other countries, with stricter gun regulations, like Russia, making a barrel would be a problem, but it's usually solved with a Deep Holl Drill (using a steel rod or cylinder as a source)
  - InclinedPlane 14y ago
    To make something with a 3d printer you just need a volume model of it. To make something with a CNC router you typically need to create a routing program, which is a lot more difficult.
    - krasin 14y ago
      3d printed gun (at least, at this moment) does not last more than one shot. And even this shot is more risky for the fighter than for the target. Also, I don't buy the argument about a difficulty to create a routing program. One can create it, others will just download and use.
- michaelt 14y ago
  Stratasys doesn't care about stopping him - they just don't want their company's name on it.
  - objclxt 14y ago
    There's probably legal concerns on their part as well: gun manufacturers get sued. A lot. By government departments, by victims of gun crime, lawsuits both genuine and spurious. If you're a manufacturer of 3D printers you can probably think of much, much better ways to spend your money than defending or settling a lawsuit against you. If this guy wants to actually go ahead with his project he's probably going to have to accept he'll need to buy the printer rather than lease it.
sbierwagen 14y ago
What a dumb project. You could build a single-use .22LR pistol out of ABS, sure. The barrel would have to be three inches thick to contain the pressure, there'd be tons of propellant blowby as the barrel warped under pressure, it'd only work once, and the total lack of rifling would give you pathetic accuracy. It would "work", but be totally impractical, as well as expensive. (Printing giant blocks of solid plastic on a FDM machine is spendy) It's like the actual goal of this project is to get the ATF to take an interest in regulating 3D printers.
- Tichy 14y ago
  The printers might get better? Also, is it conceivable that new gun mechanisms could be invented, optimized for plastic guns? Would the strain be less if you shot plastic bullets? I don't know anything about gun physics (as is probably obvious).
  - stonemetal 14y ago
    The strain is caused by the explosion of the powder in the round. There really isn't anyway around it. If you are going to accelerate a projectile to speed, then you are going to get equal but opposite force on the device(per Newton's law of physics). You might be able to print a low speed, low weight projectile item like a b.b. gun.
    - fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
      Or you could print most of the parts and use a steel or FRP barrel and hammer assembly.
      - angersock 14y ago
        Keltech at Home!
  - fein 14y ago
    You would only make the lower with a 3d printer. Here is an example: http://hackaday.com/2012/07/26/3d-printed-ar-15-lower-works/ http://hackaday.com/2012/07/26/3d-printed-ar-15-lower-works/ You would still want metal for the barrel (of course) and trigger assembly. Pretty much anything taht routes hot gases or contains explosions has to be fabbed from steel. The lower is only a mount point for some comopnents and a guide for the magazine.
ktizo 14y ago
The main issue with restricting availability of 3d printers is an economic one. The potential for engineering improvements, cost savings, insanely tight development cycles and mass bespoke manufacture-to-order would seem to strongly favour the society with the least regulation on this. Is not as though it is really going to widely cut the cost or massively increase the availability of handguns however. The economics of established mass manufacture of simple mechanical items will have an edge over 3d printing for a while yet for any items that derive negligible economic benefit from uniqueness or short runs. There is little economic benefit in 3d-printing basic guns, in the same way as there is little economic benefit in 3d-printing paperclips. People who really want guns can get them dirt cheap already. I think grips will start being 3d printed however and the existing high-end market for bespoke crafted guns will start using technology like metal laser sintering, if it doesn't already. I am just hoping that a few idiots won't manage to completely hijack the public perception of this technology, just to play the violent-paranoia politics of gun rights, when there are far more interesting uses for this tech than adding more guns to a world that already has a massive surplus of the bloody things.
- Tichy 14y ago
  I live in Germany and I have never held a real gun in my hands. I am not sure where to go to get one. I think there are some shops, but a gun permit might be required to buy one. Printing one at home would lower the bar, I think. Not that I need a gun, but I mean in general. What about kids, for example?
  - ktizo 14y ago
    I grew up in the UK and did some cadet training, so I learned to shoot a small caliber rifle there. I also know some farmers, some professional hunters, and some folk who go on pheasant shoots so I know a few people who use guns professionally and for sport. Legal guns are pretty widespread. On the other side, there is an illegal gun market in most large cities, where prices are shockingly low. In the reports of the recent killing of police in Manchester, both guns and grenades were claimed to be being sold on the street for between £50 and £200. As for the argument about kids, if your kids have easy access to bullets, then there are already problems long before they start trying to 3d print a gun.
antidoh 14y ago
Stepping up just slightly from the fact that this is about a gun, this is really just part of the movement to get access and production closer to people, with fewer intermediaries. Linux and other open source. Servers. Personal assistants. Music, books and other media production and consumption. (And in that vein, if companies are intent on getting more done with fewer employees, then I'm fully on board with getting more stuff from fewer companies. But that's another rant.) In the US, we have the unique atmosphere of the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, and so this is also a way to make it easier for citizens to exercise their rights. Finally, 3D printing and its effects have shown up here on HN a couple times recently. HN'er cstross's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_%28novel%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_%28novel%29 is a great novel that features exactly that idea as a sub plot. I really enjoyed the book.
andyl 14y ago
The guy on the video seems like a sociopath. I think his goal is to raise his profile amongst gun-rights activists. Politician in training. Thank god there isn't a 3d printer for viruses. (yet)
jasongullickson 14y ago
Shouldda used a RepRap...

43 points by sakai 14y ago

rorrr 14y ago

That will surely stop him (and others).

krasin 14y ago
surely not although, I don't see the point to use a 3d printer there. an advanced CNC routing machine will make better gun parts.
- joeycfan 14y ago
  This.
- mahyarm 14y ago
  If this is about the affordability of 3d printers, couldn't a desktop CNC machine do something similar? You can buy one on amazon.com for $350-ish: http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Toolworks-CNC-Carving-Machine/dp/B002ARTLUG%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-z-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB002ARTLUG http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Toolworks-CNC-Carving-Machine/dp/B... I don't know if it would be adequate, but it has a working space bigger than some pocket pistols for sale today. Guns are relatively simple machines with forms existing for a century still sold new today. Such as bolt action rifles.
  - sbierwagen 14y ago
    1.) That's about a thousand dollars short of a functional CNC mill. NOT INCLUDED - This is just the CNC machine with motors. You will need a 3 Axis Stepper Motor Driver to manage each motor, a spindle/cutter (a Dremel would work) and a DC power supply for the driver. You will also need a computer with a standard printer port and CNC software. - You will also need a way to mount and secure the spindle/cutter tightly to the Z-axis plate on the machine. 2.) It can't mill metal. 3.) A mill's the wrong tool for a barrel. You'd use a lathe for that, and even then it'd be smoothbore, without the tool to cut rifling.
    - krasin 14y ago
      re 3) the only regulated (in US) gun part is the lower receiver which looks like this: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11669 http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11669 A mill is the right tool for that (though, it's tricky and some manual work will be required) A barrel is available for online purchase (in US) No problem here. For other countries, with stricter gun regulations, like Russia, making a barrel would be a problem, but it's usually solved with a Deep Holl Drill (using a steel rod or cylinder as a source)
- InclinedPlane 14y ago
  To make something with a 3d printer you just need a volume model of it. To make something with a CNC router you typically need to create a routing program, which is a lot more difficult.
  - krasin 14y ago
    3d printed gun (at least, at this moment) does not last more than one shot. And even this shot is more risky for the fighter than for the target. Also, I don't buy the argument about a difficulty to create a routing program. One can create it, others will just download and use.
michaelt 14y ago
Stratasys doesn't care about stopping him - they just don't want their company's name on it.
- objclxt 14y ago
  There's probably legal concerns on their part as well: gun manufacturers get sued. A lot. By government departments, by victims of gun crime, lawsuits both genuine and spurious. If you're a manufacturer of 3D printers you can probably think of much, much better ways to spend your money than defending or settling a lawsuit against you. If this guy wants to actually go ahead with his project he's probably going to have to accept he'll need to buy the printer rather than lease it.

sbierwagen 14y ago

What a dumb project. You could build a single-use .22LR pistol out of ABS, sure. The barrel would have to be three inches thick to contain the pressure, there'd be tons of propellant blowby as the barrel warped under pressure, it'd only work once, and the total lack of rifling would give you pathetic accuracy. It would "work", but be totally impractical, as well as expensive. (Printing giant blocks of solid plastic on a FDM machine is spendy) It's like the actual goal of this project is to get the ATF to take an interest in regulating 3D printers.

Tichy 14y ago
The printers might get better? Also, is it conceivable that new gun mechanisms could be invented, optimized for plastic guns? Would the strain be less if you shot plastic bullets? I don't know anything about gun physics (as is probably obvious).
- stonemetal 14y ago
  The strain is caused by the explosion of the powder in the round. There really isn't anyway around it. If you are going to accelerate a projectile to speed, then you are going to get equal but opposite force on the device(per Newton's law of physics). You might be able to print a low speed, low weight projectile item like a b.b. gun.
  - fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
    Or you could print most of the parts and use a steel or FRP barrel and hammer assembly.
    - angersock 14y ago
      Keltech at Home!
- fein 14y ago
  You would only make the lower with a 3d printer. Here is an example: http://hackaday.com/2012/07/26/3d-printed-ar-15-lower-works/ http://hackaday.com/2012/07/26/3d-printed-ar-15-lower-works/ You would still want metal for the barrel (of course) and trigger assembly. Pretty much anything taht routes hot gases or contains explosions has to be fabbed from steel. The lower is only a mount point for some comopnents and a guide for the magazine.

ktizo 14y ago

The main issue with restricting availability of 3d printers is an economic one. The potential for engineering improvements, cost savings, insanely tight development cycles and mass bespoke manufacture-to-order would seem to strongly favour the society with the least regulation on this. Is not as though it is really going to widely cut the cost or massively increase the availability of handguns however. The economics of established mass manufacture of simple mechanical items will have an edge over 3d printing for a while yet for any items that derive negligible economic benefit from uniqueness or short runs. There is little economic benefit in 3d-printing basic guns, in the same way as there is little economic benefit in 3d-printing paperclips. People who really want guns can get them dirt cheap already. I think grips will start being 3d printed however and the existing high-end market for bespoke crafted guns will start using technology like metal laser sintering, if it doesn't already. I am just hoping that a few idiots won't manage to completely hijack the public perception of this technology, just to play the violent-paranoia politics of gun rights, when there are far more interesting uses for this tech than adding more guns to a world that already has a massive surplus of the bloody things.

Tichy 14y ago
I live in Germany and I have never held a real gun in my hands. I am not sure where to go to get one. I think there are some shops, but a gun permit might be required to buy one. Printing one at home would lower the bar, I think. Not that I need a gun, but I mean in general. What about kids, for example?
- ktizo 14y ago
  I grew up in the UK and did some cadet training, so I learned to shoot a small caliber rifle there. I also know some farmers, some professional hunters, and some folk who go on pheasant shoots so I know a few people who use guns professionally and for sport. Legal guns are pretty widespread. On the other side, there is an illegal gun market in most large cities, where prices are shockingly low. In the reports of the recent killing of police in Manchester, both guns and grenades were claimed to be being sold on the street for between £50 and £200. As for the argument about kids, if your kids have easy access to bullets, then there are already problems long before they start trying to 3d print a gun.

antidoh 14y ago

Stepping up just slightly from the fact that this is about a gun, this is really just part of the movement to get access and production closer to people, with fewer intermediaries. Linux and other open source. Servers. Personal assistants. Music, books and other media production and consumption. (And in that vein, if companies are intent on getting more done with fewer employees, then I'm fully on board with getting more stuff from fewer companies. But that's another rant.) In the US, we have the unique atmosphere of the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, and so this is also a way to make it easier for citizens to exercise their rights. Finally, 3D printing and its effects have shown up here on HN a couple times recently. HN'er cstross's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_%28novel%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_%28novel%29 is a great novel that features exactly that idea as a sub plot. I really enjoyed the book.

andyl 14y ago

The guy on the video seems like a sociopath. I think his goal is to raise his profile amongst gun-rights activists. Politician in training. Thank god there isn't a 3d printer for viruses. (yet)

jasongullickson 14y ago

Shouldda used a RepRap...