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This is such a cynical unoriginal take. No, I don't care about being in a unicorn and I'm not a embarrassed billionaire. But I don't idolize unions either. I

by mlrtime 11mo ago

This is such a cynical unoriginal take. No, I don't care about being in a unicorn and I'm not a embarrassed billionaire. But I don't idolize unions either. I don't want to be paid the same as all other workers with the same title, I like getting personal bonuses based on performance. I don't want to be in a union.

triceratops 11mo ago
> I don't want to be paid the same as all other workers with the same title That's not what unions do. > I like getting personal bonuses based on performance A union doesn't prevent that. Film and TV actors, and professional athletes are in unions. They are not all paid the same. They get lavish bonuses based on performance. Retail and fast food workers are usually not in unions. They don't make much money. A union can't increase wages (much) and it doesn't decrease wages. Only supply and demand can do that.
- koliber 11mo ago
  I never worked at a union workplace. However, I’ve worked with underperforming colleagues who were could not be fired for whatever reason. It was miserable.
  - triceratops 11mo ago
    So...there's nothing about unions specifically that makes underperforming colleagues un-fireable right? Because you've seen that in non-union workplaces. Union membership won't save Kylian Mbappe from being dropped to the bench if he doesn't score enough goals. His endorsement deals or his agent's influence might do it.
    - koliber 11mo ago
      I don't know where it stems from, but I think it's harder to fire people in union shops. In a non-union shop, you have to work with the person, their manager, and HR to see if you can correct someone's performance, and if that does not work, let them go. At a union shop, I imagine someone from the union will also be involved in this process, and it's hard to imagine how this process would be made easier through the involvement of another person, who happens to hold a bias.
  - idiotsecant 11mo ago
    You'll forgive me for saying that you sound wildly underqualified to comment on the subject. I have worked in non-union shops and union shops. The union shops have a way better quality of life.
    - koliber 11mo ago
      You're forgiven, but not correct re: me being under-qualified to comment. I have interacted with union shops and non-union shops and have 25 years of professional experience, so please don't be dismissive. I've worked with union shops as clients and I've hit a surprising amount of friction due to things which seemed union related. Things like "that's not my job and we need XYZ to do it" and what seemed like people slacking at their job from the outside. I once needed a desk moved a few feet which required a power strip to be plugged into a different wall outlet, and was told we need to wait for the electricians. Risking the wrath and fallout, I did it myself. I've also seen this kind of behavior at non-union shops, but it was less explicitly stated and it was relatively easy to do something about it. I'm sure you're correct about the quality of life at union shops.
- mlrtime 11mo ago
  So that would be the plan, to replicate entertainment industry union pay to the tech industry? Has anyone seriously thought this through or is it just theory.
  - triceratops 11mo ago
    I mean you're just here repeating the lazy old anti-union talking points with 0 thought. I offered some examples that contradict them. The burden of proof is on you at this point. If not having unions leads to high wages and good working conditions, why aren't retail and fast food workers making bank? Why do they get treated like shit? Please tell us.
    - ryandrake 11mo ago
      It's so wild. So many HN commenters have this exaggerated caricature in their heads about what a Union must be: "Unions mean every worker gets paid the same!" "Unions mean I will make less money!" "Unions make it impossible to fire underperformers!" "Unions are run by bosses whose incentives are different than workers!" "Unions mean I can't plug in my own workstation!" "Unions reward seniority over everything else!" Like they've taken every spook story they've been told about unions, gathered up the worst parts, and then simply declare that unions, by law, must necessarily be all those bad things.
      - mlrtime 11mo ago
        Because all those actually happen? Tell me why I should want a union for myself.
        ryandrake 11mo ago
        Is there anything that annoys you about your current workplace? Not just compensation, but really anything at all. Does it also annoy others in your workplace? If so, you found something that forming a union may be able to help with. Your ability to negotiate away that annoyance might not be strong, but with 20 other fellow employees, you might be able to do something about it. That's really all there is to it. A "union" doesn't necessarily have to look like the Teamsters.

by mlrtime 11mo ago

triceratops 11mo ago

> I don't want to be paid the same as all other workers with the same title That's not what unions do. > I like getting personal bonuses based on performance A union doesn't prevent that. Film and TV actors, and professional athletes are in unions. They are not all paid the same. They get lavish bonuses based on performance. Retail and fast food workers are usually not in unions. They don't make much money. A union can't increase wages (much) and it doesn't decrease wages. Only supply and demand can do that.

koliber 11mo ago
I never worked at a union workplace. However, I’ve worked with underperforming colleagues who were could not be fired for whatever reason. It was miserable.
- triceratops 11mo ago
  So...there's nothing about unions specifically that makes underperforming colleagues un-fireable right? Because you've seen that in non-union workplaces. Union membership won't save Kylian Mbappe from being dropped to the bench if he doesn't score enough goals. His endorsement deals or his agent's influence might do it.
  - koliber 11mo ago
    I don't know where it stems from, but I think it's harder to fire people in union shops. In a non-union shop, you have to work with the person, their manager, and HR to see if you can correct someone's performance, and if that does not work, let them go. At a union shop, I imagine someone from the union will also be involved in this process, and it's hard to imagine how this process would be made easier through the involvement of another person, who happens to hold a bias.
- idiotsecant 11mo ago
  You'll forgive me for saying that you sound wildly underqualified to comment on the subject. I have worked in non-union shops and union shops. The union shops have a way better quality of life.
  - koliber 11mo ago
    You're forgiven, but not correct re: me being under-qualified to comment. I have interacted with union shops and non-union shops and have 25 years of professional experience, so please don't be dismissive. I've worked with union shops as clients and I've hit a surprising amount of friction due to things which seemed union related. Things like "that's not my job and we need XYZ to do it" and what seemed like people slacking at their job from the outside. I once needed a desk moved a few feet which required a power strip to be plugged into a different wall outlet, and was told we need to wait for the electricians. Risking the wrath and fallout, I did it myself. I've also seen this kind of behavior at non-union shops, but it was less explicitly stated and it was relatively easy to do something about it. I'm sure you're correct about the quality of life at union shops.
mlrtime 11mo ago
So that would be the plan, to replicate entertainment industry union pay to the tech industry? Has anyone seriously thought this through or is it just theory.
- triceratops 11mo ago
  I mean you're just here repeating the lazy old anti-union talking points with 0 thought. I offered some examples that contradict them. The burden of proof is on you at this point. If not having unions leads to high wages and good working conditions, why aren't retail and fast food workers making bank? Why do they get treated like shit? Please tell us.
  - ryandrake 11mo ago
    It's so wild. So many HN commenters have this exaggerated caricature in their heads about what a Union must be: "Unions mean every worker gets paid the same!" "Unions mean I will make less money!" "Unions make it impossible to fire underperformers!" "Unions are run by bosses whose incentives are different than workers!" "Unions mean I can't plug in my own workstation!" "Unions reward seniority over everything else!" Like they've taken every spook story they've been told about unions, gathered up the worst parts, and then simply declare that unions, by law, must necessarily be all those bad things.
    - mlrtime 11mo ago
      Because all those actually happen? Tell me why I should want a union for myself.
      - ryandrake 11mo ago
        Is there anything that annoys you about your current workplace? Not just compensation, but really anything at all. Does it also annoy others in your workplace? If so, you found something that forming a union may be able to help with. Your ability to negotiate away that annoyance might not be strong, but with 20 other fellow employees, you might be able to do something about it. That's really all there is to it. A "union" doesn't necessarily have to look like the Teamsters.