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I love bees and ants, but I love bees the most. I would recommend people to study the behavior of bees and ants. Additionally, honey, propolis, etc. are super h

I love bees and ants, but I love bees the most. I would recommend people to study the behavior of bees and ants. Additionally, honey, propolis, etc. are super healthy, and we can thank bees for that.

baxtr 11mo ago
Not that I want to curb your enthusiasm for bees, but… I recently read that honey bees in particular get the most attention from humans lately, so they are kept in high numbers. This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps.
- johnisgood 11mo ago
  Why would what you said curb my enthusiasm for bees though? Can you provide me more specifics on this by the way? > This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps. What are those adversarial effects, what other pollinators, and how does it hurt the ecosystem more than it helps? I do not mind bees having kept in higher numbers, and beekeepers can do it anywhere without affecting the ecosystem, I believe.
  - baxtr 11mo ago
    I am no expert at all in this topic! So please take this with a grain of salt. I just have the feeling (maybe wrongly) that the love and focus for bees is having detrimental/ unwanted effects on the ecosystem. Here some more articles / discussions: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44505552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44505552 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44792207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44792207 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668879
    - johnisgood 11mo ago
      My love for bees is more about their behavior (similar to how I find ants fascinating), and their "products" that is honey, propolis, beeswax, and so on. I am simply fascinated by their behaviors, and propolis is very healthy!
      - 867-5309 11mo ago
        that read like "source please" then "sauce is yummy"
        johnisgood 11mo ago
        I am not sure what you are trying to imply. If you are referring to what I asked: "What are those adversarial effects, what other pollinators, and how does it hurt the ecosystem more than it helps?", then all I have to say about it is that I am just genuinely curious.
      - fullstop 11mo ago
        I have always been enamored with "social" insects like bees, wasps, and ants. I _loved_ SimAnt as a child. It also blows my mind that I utterly balk at eating insects but bee vomit is totally cool.
        johnisgood 11mo ago
        Oh my, I just looked for a screenshot of SimAnt. I remember this game, too! I have played it for some time, too. :)
        fullstop 11mo ago
        You can play it in a browser: https://archive.org/details/msdos_SimAnt_-_The_Electronic_Ant_Colony_1991 https://archive.org/details/msdos_SimAnt_-_The_Electronic_An...
        johnisgood 11mo ago
    - bijant 11mo ago
      Why won’t you let „the ecosystem“ decide that on its own ? It’s much older than you and you are not its lega guardian. If the ecosystem (of which we are a part) decides it wants more honey bees than that’s what it shall get.
      - snthd 11mo ago
        The idea that ecosystems naturally balance themselves is a pervasive myth. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/balance-of-nature-explained https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/balan... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_nature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_nature >It’s much older than you and you are not its legal guardian. A fair few cultures believe they are. NZ recognises the Whanganui River as having legal personhood.
      - pinnochio 11mo ago
        If we're a part of the ecosystem, then deciding to be honey bees' legal guardian _is_ the ecosystem deciding that on its own, no?
        baxtr 11mo ago
        Yes exactly, doing nothing or doing something is the same. We are part of the ecosystem. So any discussion we’re having is also part of being and operating in the ecosystem…
      - soiltype 11mo ago
        The same reason you bandage a stab wound instead of letting the body decide what it wants. It doesn't want anything or have the ability to choose its responses to changes. Which is exactly why we are the legal guardians of natural ecosystems, by the way - have you not heard of lands and waters protected from certain human activities? The fact that we don't currently stop ourselves from propogating honeybees into ecosystems that can't fit them is not an indication of anything except our failures.
      - baxtr 11mo ago
        I guess it’s a fair point. But then again, since as you argue (rightfully so!) that I’m also part of the ecosystem: me caring and expressing doubts is actually working as the ecosystem. That’s how I’m being (virtually) a part of it.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - skeezyjefferson 11mo ago
    [dead]
  - filoeleven 11mo ago
    European honeybees do not behave the same way as their native solitary counterparts. They gather honey by visiting every flower on a plant, then moving to the next plant. Native bees OTOH visit only one or two flowers per plant. So if imported honeybees outcompete natives (and studies show they do), it very much affects the viability of monoecious plants, which experience a drop in genetic diversity. I don't want to find out the long-term results of that experiment. I don't think that's a reason to eradicate honeybees in the US or anything like that, but it does point to a misplaced focus on "just" solving colony collapse disorder while ignoring the plight of the native pollinators. If you don't keep bees, or if you do but have a large enough property, you could put up a bee hotel. They can be bought or constructed pretty easily, and you'll get to see a wide variety of who's around your area! https://bugguide.net/node/view/475348 https://bugguide.net/node/view/475348
- bijant 11mo ago
  I‘d give it a chance. After all it can’t be any worse than Seinfeld for Bees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Movie
- gibspaulding 11mo ago
  There’s something like four thousand species of bees native to North America [1], so while there are lots of reasons to be unenthusiastic about honey bees [2], that still leaves lots of room for bee related enthusiasm :) [1] https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-role-native-bees-united-states https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-role-native-bees-united-state... [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-honey-bees/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-...
rootbear 11mo ago
Agreed! Bees are my favorite social insect (we share a love of hexagons, for one thing) and they seem to be especially intelligent.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- jbnorth 11mo ago
  The hexagon is the best-agon
  - hackable_sand 11mo ago
    This thread is awesome. I had a miniature war with some wasps staking a claim on my porch Let me say, wasps are incredibly endurant creatures. I have much respect for them. Their architecture though... I have the remnants of their enclave. It is so stable and uniform and cozy. I wish wasps were friends.
    - cindyllm 11mo ago
      [dead]
SoftTalker 11mo ago
Yellowjackets can go to hell though.
- johnisgood 11mo ago
  Well, kind of. :D Wasps do not produce honey, they just collect nectar and sugary substances for immediate consumption, and propolis is specifically a bee product made from tree resins. That said, wasps are still quite intelligent for insects with regarding to spatial memory, individual recognition, learning, problem-solving, and social cognition. In fact, their intelligence is comparable to honeybees in many respects. Contrary to popular belief, wasps are not mindless aggressors, their defensive behavior is calculated based on threat assessment. :)
  - cj 11mo ago
    > wasps are not mindless aggressors, their defensive behavior is calculated based on threat assessment. Can confirm. I had a yellow jacket infestation in my kitchen wall this fall. Every day I'd wake up to dozens of bees flying around my kitchen. But they didn't care about me, all they cared about was getting outside. I probably killed 200-300 yellow jackets with a fly swatter over the course of 2 weeks. Somehow I wasn't stung once.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]

I love bees and ants, but I love bees the most. I would recommend people to study the behavior of bees and ants. Additionally, honey, propolis, etc. are super healthy, and we can thank bees for that.

baxtr 11mo ago

Not that I want to curb your enthusiasm for bees, but… I recently read that honey bees in particular get the most attention from humans lately, so they are kept in high numbers. This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps.

johnisgood 11mo ago
Why would what you said curb my enthusiasm for bees though? Can you provide me more specifics on this by the way? > This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps. What are those adversarial effects, what other pollinators, and how does it hurt the ecosystem more than it helps? I do not mind bees having kept in higher numbers, and beekeepers can do it anywhere without affecting the ecosystem, I believe.
- baxtr 11mo ago
  I am no expert at all in this topic! So please take this with a grain of salt. I just have the feeling (maybe wrongly) that the love and focus for bees is having detrimental/ unwanted effects on the ecosystem. Here some more articles / discussions: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44505552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44505552 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44792207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44792207 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668879
  - johnisgood 11mo ago
    My love for bees is more about their behavior (similar to how I find ants fascinating), and their "products" that is honey, propolis, beeswax, and so on. I am simply fascinated by their behaviors, and propolis is very healthy!
    - 867-5309 11mo ago
      that read like "source please" then "sauce is yummy"
      - johnisgood 11mo ago
        I am not sure what you are trying to imply. If you are referring to what I asked: "What are those adversarial effects, what other pollinators, and how does it hurt the ecosystem more than it helps?", then all I have to say about it is that I am just genuinely curious.
    - fullstop 11mo ago
      I have always been enamored with "social" insects like bees, wasps, and ants. I _loved_ SimAnt as a child. It also blows my mind that I utterly balk at eating insects but bee vomit is totally cool.
      - johnisgood 11mo ago
        Oh my, I just looked for a screenshot of SimAnt. I remember this game, too! I have played it for some time, too. :)
        fullstop 11mo ago
        You can play it in a browser: https://archive.org/details/msdos_SimAnt_-_The_Electronic_Ant_Colony_1991 https://archive.org/details/msdos_SimAnt_-_The_Electronic_An...
        johnisgood 11mo ago
  - bijant 11mo ago
    Why won’t you let „the ecosystem“ decide that on its own ? It’s much older than you and you are not its lega guardian. If the ecosystem (of which we are a part) decides it wants more honey bees than that’s what it shall get.
    - snthd 11mo ago
      The idea that ecosystems naturally balance themselves is a pervasive myth. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/balance-of-nature-explained https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/balan... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_nature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_nature >It’s much older than you and you are not its legal guardian. A fair few cultures believe they are. NZ recognises the Whanganui River as having legal personhood.
    - pinnochio 11mo ago
      If we're a part of the ecosystem, then deciding to be honey bees' legal guardian _is_ the ecosystem deciding that on its own, no?
      - baxtr 11mo ago
        Yes exactly, doing nothing or doing something is the same. We are part of the ecosystem. So any discussion we’re having is also part of being and operating in the ecosystem…
    - soiltype 11mo ago
      The same reason you bandage a stab wound instead of letting the body decide what it wants. It doesn't want anything or have the ability to choose its responses to changes. Which is exactly why we are the legal guardians of natural ecosystems, by the way - have you not heard of lands and waters protected from certain human activities? The fact that we don't currently stop ourselves from propogating honeybees into ecosystems that can't fit them is not an indication of anything except our failures.
    - baxtr 11mo ago
      I guess it’s a fair point. But then again, since as you argue (rightfully so!) that I’m also part of the ecosystem: me caring and expressing doubts is actually working as the ecosystem. That’s how I’m being (virtually) a part of it.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- skeezyjefferson 11mo ago
  [dead]
- filoeleven 11mo ago
  European honeybees do not behave the same way as their native solitary counterparts. They gather honey by visiting every flower on a plant, then moving to the next plant. Native bees OTOH visit only one or two flowers per plant. So if imported honeybees outcompete natives (and studies show they do), it very much affects the viability of monoecious plants, which experience a drop in genetic diversity. I don't want to find out the long-term results of that experiment. I don't think that's a reason to eradicate honeybees in the US or anything like that, but it does point to a misplaced focus on "just" solving colony collapse disorder while ignoring the plight of the native pollinators. If you don't keep bees, or if you do but have a large enough property, you could put up a bee hotel. They can be bought or constructed pretty easily, and you'll get to see a wide variety of who's around your area! https://bugguide.net/node/view/475348 https://bugguide.net/node/view/475348
bijant 11mo ago
I‘d give it a chance. After all it can’t be any worse than Seinfeld for Bees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Movie
gibspaulding 11mo ago
There’s something like four thousand species of bees native to North America [1], so while there are lots of reasons to be unenthusiastic about honey bees [2], that still leaves lots of room for bee related enthusiasm :) [1] https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-role-native-bees-united-states https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-role-native-bees-united-state... [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-honey-bees/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-...

rootbear 11mo ago

Agreed! Bees are my favorite social insect (we share a love of hexagons, for one thing) and they seem to be especially intelligent.

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
jbnorth 11mo ago
The hexagon is the best-agon
- hackable_sand 11mo ago
  This thread is awesome. I had a miniature war with some wasps staking a claim on my porch Let me say, wasps are incredibly endurant creatures. I have much respect for them. Their architecture though... I have the remnants of their enclave. It is so stable and uniform and cozy. I wish wasps were friends.
  - cindyllm 11mo ago
    [dead]

SoftTalker 11mo ago

Yellowjackets can go to hell though.

johnisgood 11mo ago
Well, kind of. :D Wasps do not produce honey, they just collect nectar and sugary substances for immediate consumption, and propolis is specifically a bee product made from tree resins. That said, wasps are still quite intelligent for insects with regarding to spatial memory, individual recognition, learning, problem-solving, and social cognition. In fact, their intelligence is comparable to honeybees in many respects. Contrary to popular belief, wasps are not mindless aggressors, their defensive behavior is calculated based on threat assessment. :)
- cj 11mo ago
  > wasps are not mindless aggressors, their defensive behavior is calculated based on threat assessment. Can confirm. I had a yellow jacket infestation in my kitchen wall this fall. Every day I'd wake up to dozens of bees flying around my kitchen. But they didn't care about me, all they cared about was getting outside. I probably killed 200-300 yellow jackets with a fly swatter over the course of 2 weeks. Somehow I wasn't stung once.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]