6 ms·

U.S. Coast Guard will no longer classify swastikas, nooses as hate symbols

94 points by mrtesthah 11mo ago

techblueberry 11mo ago
I can't help but see this as a solution in search of a problem. Are we so optimized in our speech designations that solves and actual problem here that's not "We're too hard on racists?" I can get around the whole "how do you define hate speech" thing, but like, who's getting unfairly caught in the trap of using a noose in a neutral way. Does defining a swastika as "potentially divisive" help Buddhists?
- pclmulqdq 11mo ago
  I think the problem they are trying to fix is hoaxes.
- throw0101c 11mo ago
  > I can't help but see this as a solution in search of a problem. The problem was that racists couldn't openly be racist and intimidate non-white members of the Coast Guard.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
  Eh. You can't see it, because you are not affected, which, to be fair, is a common human condition. The fascinating part about it is that you are even able to pin point obvious false positive and still fail to understand the implications. I suspect, though I do not know, that should your personal belief ( that happened to be associated with a semi-random object ) was somehow outlawed, you would feel differently. If you do not know, you don't. Nothing to be seen. Why won't those people just let go of their outmoded belief systems:D Good grief.
  - MangoToupe 11mo ago
    Of course I can understand why people who want to hang a swastika feel unfairly treated; i'm just curious why their belief system seems to be more important than a stable society.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
      Interesting. Most reasonable people would agree that things do not exist in a vacuum and that competing values, such as they are, may need to be preserved. This can mean a lot of different things across societies as consensus is established ( because it will vary and vary wildly ). Now, there absolutely is value in a stable society, but if it is the main value that we optimize for then minimizing that belief system is a surefire way to undermine it. Naturally, if you are telling me belief systems don't matter, please say so. If you believe only some belief systems matter, please list that ones that meet your acceptable threshold. I am not a religions scholar or social academic, but that sounds to me a bit counter productive.
      - techblueberry 11mo ago
        > Most reasonable people would agree that things do not exist in a vacuum and that competing values, such as they are, may need to be preserved. I don’t think this is true at all. Most people are pretty ideological and think there are certain toxic ideas that need to be expunged from society. We don’t agree what those things are but ideology is a power struggle. Pure ideological libertarians are rare.
        deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
  - techblueberry 11mo ago
    I’m more worried about the 6 million true positives, especially with high level people in the GOP talking about the parties “Nazi Problem”
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
      Fascinating. Is it fair to state that you are the type of person that would rather have an innocent be trampled by the system than a guilty go free? Because, unironically too, you managed to do just that to ~3 million Buddhists in US[1] -- quite literally a religious minority. Naturally, this is before we get to the fun parts like definition of a nazi, that a sane system would normally not focus on 'true positives', but whether it is reasonable. Honestly, you make me smile. Do you know why? Because I know, just as you do in your heart of hearts, that if dura lex sed lex came after you, you would be trying to tell me how unfair the system is and that it should let you slip through the cracks. Still, know that I love you; as flawed as you are. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_the_United_States
      - techblueberry 11mo ago
        “ Is it fair to state that you are the type of person that would rather have an innocent be trampled by the system than a guilty go free? ” Nope. I think it’s something like a 27:1 ratio. I don’t believe in moral absolutism.
        A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
        Then the problem is -- thankfully -- more nuanced. How do you reconcile those competing ideas within you?
tptacek 11mo ago
It's bad, but a more neutral way to put it is that they got rid of the "hate" framing altogether and replaced it with a (mealy-mouthed) "divisiveness" framing. New policy: https://media.defense.gov/2025/nov/14/2003820615/-1/-1/0/CI_5350_6A.pdf https://media.defense.gov/2025/nov/14/2003820615/-1/-1/0/CI_... Old policy: https://wow.uscgaux.info/Uploads_wowII/O-DEPT/CG__Harassing_Behavior__Prevention__Response__and_Accountability_CI_5350_6_02.PDF https://wow.uscgaux.info/Uploads_wowII/O-DEPT/CG__Harassing_... I agree with a friend online who said this reads actually somewhat like malicious compliance from USCG (you still can't hang a swastika; they just got rid of the normative language about why). Not really sure what's interesting about this story for HN, though.
- truthtold9 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - javascriptfan69 11mo ago
    Literally, what the fuck are you talking about?
    - tptacek 11mo ago
      [flagged]
      - truthtold9 11mo ago
        [flagged]
      - trollolololo 11mo ago
        [flagged]
- dathinab 11mo ago
  because it looks like the US is falling to fascism swastika(1) which are symbols of genocide due to hate are no longer "hate symbols" what fucked up times do we live in when we can't even agree anymore that literal nazis are evil and people in power can force it to be "just divisive"
r0ckarong 11mo ago
Good time to finally get that double lightning tattoo you always wanted sailor.
exceptione 11mo ago
They are increasingly revealing their ugly face. We had Sieg Heils on Republic and conservative public events. We have Miller in power. The groypers are being enabled to push out the old guard. It is all necessary as Trump can't be the future. For it to survive, they will have to double down, and so extreme ideological idiocy will take its place. But people still think they can wait it out. But alas, that is not how fascism works. Those concentration camps will never become vacant.
- palmotea 11mo ago
  > They are increasingly revealing their ugly face. We had Sieg Heils on Republic and conservative public events. We have Miller in power. The groypers are being enabled to push out the old guard. You list all those things like they're part of the same thing, but isn't Stephen Miller Jewish? It's easy to lump people together into an undifferentiated "enemy," but there's a tension there that needs some explanation. I don't think a Jewish guy could ever be an unironic neo-Nazi.
  - toomanyrichies 11mo ago
    Noted Nazi Richard Spencer was Stephen Miller's mentor while they were both at Duke [1]. Miller repeatedly pushed Breitbart News editors to promote content from explicitly white nationalist sources such as VDare and American Renaissance [2]. He recommended The Camp of the Saints, a notoriously racist novel beloved by many white supremacists and some neo-Nazis, which features "white genocide" themes [3]. At this point, asking whether Miller is a card-carrying Nazi, or just pals around with them and espouses their beliefs, is a distinction without a difference. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... 1. https://www.businessinsider.com/richard-spencer-says-he-knew-stephen-miller-at-duke-at-2019-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/richard-spencer-says-he-knew... 2. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/12/trump-adviser-stephen-miller-white-nationalist-agenda-breitbart?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/12/trump-adviser-... 3. https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/bigoted-beliefs-racist-ties-found-among-president-trumps-appointees/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/bigoted-belief...
supportengineer 11mo ago
WTF timeline are we living in? I didn't choose any of this.
tehjoker 11mo ago
If you find yourself trying to downplay this, at a symbolic level, will you accept anything? The administration is clearly trying to find the most nazified guys they can to do horrible things. They already are doing a genocide in Gaza (hint: that's not over). What new evil are they preparing?
cornhole 11mo ago
we didn’t win World War Two for this shit
throw0101c 11mo ago
https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/11/20/coast-guard-swastika-noose/ https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-s... https://archive.is/40h3d https://archive.is/40h3d
deepfriedchokes 11mo ago
If all this stuff that happens during Trump’s presidency gets normalized, and not reversed and severely punished, it’s going to get worse. They’ll push the Overton Window as far as they can in their pursuit of power.

94 points by mrtesthah 11mo ago

I can't help but see this as a solution in search of a problem. Are we so optimized in our speech designations that solves and actual problem here that's not "We're too hard on racists?" I can get around the whole "how do you define hate speech" thing, but like, who's getting unfairly caught in the trap of using a noose in a neutral way. Does defining a swastika as "potentially divisive" help Buddhists?

pclmulqdq 11mo ago
I think the problem they are trying to fix is hoaxes.
throw0101c 11mo ago
> I can't help but see this as a solution in search of a problem. The problem was that racists couldn't openly be racist and intimidate non-white members of the Coast Guard.
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
Eh. You can't see it, because you are not affected, which, to be fair, is a common human condition. The fascinating part about it is that you are even able to pin point obvious false positive and still fail to understand the implications. I suspect, though I do not know, that should your personal belief ( that happened to be associated with a semi-random object ) was somehow outlawed, you would feel differently. If you do not know, you don't. Nothing to be seen. Why won't those people just let go of their outmoded belief systems:D Good grief.
- MangoToupe 11mo ago
  Of course I can understand why people who want to hang a swastika feel unfairly treated; i'm just curious why their belief system seems to be more important than a stable society.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
    Interesting. Most reasonable people would agree that things do not exist in a vacuum and that competing values, such as they are, may need to be preserved. This can mean a lot of different things across societies as consensus is established ( because it will vary and vary wildly ). Now, there absolutely is value in a stable society, but if it is the main value that we optimize for then minimizing that belief system is a surefire way to undermine it. Naturally, if you are telling me belief systems don't matter, please say so. If you believe only some belief systems matter, please list that ones that meet your acceptable threshold. I am not a religions scholar or social academic, but that sounds to me a bit counter productive.
    - techblueberry 11mo ago
      > Most reasonable people would agree that things do not exist in a vacuum and that competing values, such as they are, may need to be preserved. I don’t think this is true at all. Most people are pretty ideological and think there are certain toxic ideas that need to be expunged from society. We don’t agree what those things are but ideology is a power struggle. Pure ideological libertarians are rare.
      - deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
- techblueberry 11mo ago
  I’m more worried about the 6 million true positives, especially with high level people in the GOP talking about the parties “Nazi Problem”
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
    Fascinating. Is it fair to state that you are the type of person that would rather have an innocent be trampled by the system than a guilty go free? Because, unironically too, you managed to do just that to ~3 million Buddhists in US[1] -- quite literally a religious minority. Naturally, this is before we get to the fun parts like definition of a nazi, that a sane system would normally not focus on 'true positives', but whether it is reasonable. Honestly, you make me smile. Do you know why? Because I know, just as you do in your heart of hearts, that if dura lex sed lex came after you, you would be trying to tell me how unfair the system is and that it should let you slip through the cracks. Still, know that I love you; as flawed as you are. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_the_United_States
    - techblueberry 11mo ago
      “ Is it fair to state that you are the type of person that would rather have an innocent be trampled by the system than a guilty go free? ” Nope. I think it’s something like a 27:1 ratio. I don’t believe in moral absolutism.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
        Then the problem is -- thankfully -- more nuanced. How do you reconcile those competing ideas within you?

tptacek 11mo ago

It's bad, but a more neutral way to put it is that they got rid of the "hate" framing altogether and replaced it with a (mealy-mouthed) "divisiveness" framing. New policy: https://media.defense.gov/2025/nov/14/2003820615/-1/-1/0/CI_5350_6A.pdf https://media.defense.gov/2025/nov/14/2003820615/-1/-1/0/CI_... Old policy: https://wow.uscgaux.info/Uploads_wowII/O-DEPT/CG__Harassing_Behavior__Prevention__Response__and_Accountability_CI_5350_6_02.PDF https://wow.uscgaux.info/Uploads_wowII/O-DEPT/CG__Harassing_... I agree with a friend online who said this reads actually somewhat like malicious compliance from USCG (you still can't hang a swastika; they just got rid of the normative language about why). Not really sure what's interesting about this story for HN, though.

truthtold9 11mo ago
[flagged]
- javascriptfan69 11mo ago
  Literally, what the fuck are you talking about?
  - tptacek 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - truthtold9 11mo ago
      [flagged]
    - trollolololo 11mo ago
      [flagged]
dathinab 11mo ago
because it looks like the US is falling to fascism swastika(1) which are symbols of genocide due to hate are no longer "hate symbols" what fucked up times do we live in when we can't even agree anymore that literal nazis are evil and people in power can force it to be "just divisive"

r0ckarong 11mo ago

Good time to finally get that double lightning tattoo you always wanted sailor.

exceptione 11mo ago

They are increasingly revealing their ugly face. We had Sieg Heils on Republic and conservative public events. We have Miller in power. The groypers are being enabled to push out the old guard. It is all necessary as Trump can't be the future. For it to survive, they will have to double down, and so extreme ideological idiocy will take its place. But people still think they can wait it out. But alas, that is not how fascism works. Those concentration camps will never become vacant.

palmotea 11mo ago
> They are increasingly revealing their ugly face. We had Sieg Heils on Republic and conservative public events. We have Miller in power. The groypers are being enabled to push out the old guard. You list all those things like they're part of the same thing, but isn't Stephen Miller Jewish? It's easy to lump people together into an undifferentiated "enemy," but there's a tension there that needs some explanation. I don't think a Jewish guy could ever be an unironic neo-Nazi.
- toomanyrichies 11mo ago
  Noted Nazi Richard Spencer was Stephen Miller's mentor while they were both at Duke [1]. Miller repeatedly pushed Breitbart News editors to promote content from explicitly white nationalist sources such as VDare and American Renaissance [2]. He recommended The Camp of the Saints, a notoriously racist novel beloved by many white supremacists and some neo-Nazis, which features "white genocide" themes [3]. At this point, asking whether Miller is a card-carrying Nazi, or just pals around with them and espouses their beliefs, is a distinction without a difference. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... 1. https://www.businessinsider.com/richard-spencer-says-he-knew-stephen-miller-at-duke-at-2019-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/richard-spencer-says-he-knew... 2. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/12/trump-adviser-stephen-miller-white-nationalist-agenda-breitbart?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/12/trump-adviser-... 3. https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/bigoted-beliefs-racist-ties-found-among-president-trumps-appointees/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/bigoted-belief...

supportengineer 11mo ago

WTF timeline are we living in? I didn't choose any of this.

tehjoker 11mo ago

If you find yourself trying to downplay this, at a symbolic level, will you accept anything? The administration is clearly trying to find the most nazified guys they can to do horrible things. They already are doing a genocide in Gaza (hint: that's not over). What new evil are they preparing?

cornhole 11mo ago

we didn’t win World War Two for this shit

throw0101c 11mo ago

https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/11/20/coast-guard-swastika-noose/ https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-s... https://archive.is/40h3d https://archive.is/40h3d

deepfriedchokes 11mo ago

If all this stuff that happens during Trump’s presidency gets normalized, and not reversed and severely punished, it’s going to get worse. They’ll push the Overton Window as far as they can in their pursuit of power.