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Those are pretty standard policies of center-right / conservative parties in Europe. (Plus the fact that Dems talk about some of these doesn't mean they think

Those are pretty standard policies of center-right / conservative parties in Europe. (Plus the fact that Dems talk about some of these doesn't mean they think they're going to happen.)

lotsofpulp 1y ago
Seems irrelevant to a discussion comparing US parties. >Plus the fact that Dems talk about some of these doesn't mean they think they're going to happen They literally got ACA passed by a hair, and were just shy of 2 Senate votes needed to enact all those policies I discussed in Biden's original BBB.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  We're talking about a need for a party that no longer exists in the US. Why would we not look to similar examples out there in actual practice?
  - hatthew 1y ago
    this thread comes from a provocative quip that the democrats are conservative, with no mention whatsoever of any context other than america
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      Here’s some American context: a ~3 minute video. Bush and Reagan, during the primaries, trying to win over Republicans, answering a question about immigration. https://youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok https://youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok That’s what American conservatism used to look like. Modern Dems talk a lot like that.
      - anigbrowl 1y ago
        Or even look at George @ Bush's calls for comprehensive immigration reform, and his repeated emphasis on treating all immigrants, legal or not, with dignity and courtesy: https://www.bushcenter.org/topics/immigration https://www.bushcenter.org/topics/immigration
lobf 1y ago
Can you name an example?
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  Sure; the UK's Tories, or Germany's CDU, or Australia's Liberal (lol) Party. Hell, the right-wing ran on giving more money to the National Health Service as one of their Brexit arguments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Leave_bus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Leave_bus (Including Farage, at times! https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-r...)
  - triceratops 1y ago
    But that ended up being a lie. It almost feels like a pattern...
almosthere 1y ago
That's definitely left wing in the United States.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  There's a big difference between "actually left wing" and "leftwards of 50% of a particular population". The US has very little actual big-L Left (ahem) left in it.
  - hatthew 1y ago
    left and right are directions, not locations
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      The leftmost member of the Reichstag in 1942 was probably not fairly described as “left wing”.
    - nullstyle 1y ago
      Left and right aren’t directions, they are regions
beeflet 1y ago
this isn't europe
- lawn 1y ago
  True. In the US everyone is to the right.
iso1631 1y ago
Successive UK conservative prime ministers increased minimum wage 97% from May 2010 to May 2024 Normal earnings increased just 55% in that time and tracking inflation would have meant increasing 49.5%

Those are pretty standard policies of center-right / conservative parties in Europe. (Plus the fact that Dems talk about some of these doesn't mean they think they're going to happen.)

lotsofpulp 1y ago

Seems irrelevant to a discussion comparing US parties. >Plus the fact that Dems talk about some of these doesn't mean they think they're going to happen They literally got ACA passed by a hair, and were just shy of 2 Senate votes needed to enact all those policies I discussed in Biden's original BBB.

ceejayoz 1y ago
We're talking about a need for a party that no longer exists in the US. Why would we not look to similar examples out there in actual practice?
- hatthew 1y ago
  this thread comes from a provocative quip that the democrats are conservative, with no mention whatsoever of any context other than america
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    Here’s some American context: a ~3 minute video. Bush and Reagan, during the primaries, trying to win over Republicans, answering a question about immigration. https://youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok https://youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok That’s what American conservatism used to look like. Modern Dems talk a lot like that.
    - anigbrowl 1y ago
      Or even look at George @ Bush's calls for comprehensive immigration reform, and his repeated emphasis on treating all immigrants, legal or not, with dignity and courtesy: https://www.bushcenter.org/topics/immigration https://www.bushcenter.org/topics/immigration

lobf 1y ago

Can you name an example?

ceejayoz 1y ago
Sure; the UK's Tories, or Germany's CDU, or Australia's Liberal (lol) Party. Hell, the right-wing ran on giving more money to the National Health Service as one of their Brexit arguments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Leave_bus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Leave_bus (Including Farage, at times! https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-r...)
- triceratops 1y ago
  But that ended up being a lie. It almost feels like a pattern...

almosthere 1y ago

That's definitely left wing in the United States.

ceejayoz 1y ago
There's a big difference between "actually left wing" and "leftwards of 50% of a particular population". The US has very little actual big-L Left (ahem) left in it.
- hatthew 1y ago
  left and right are directions, not locations
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    The leftmost member of the Reichstag in 1942 was probably not fairly described as “left wing”.
  - nullstyle 1y ago
    Left and right aren’t directions, they are regions

beeflet 1y ago

this isn't europe

lawn 1y ago
True. In the US everyone is to the right.

iso1631 1y ago

Successive UK conservative prime ministers increased minimum wage 97% from May 2010 to May 2024 Normal earnings increased just 55% in that time and tracking inflation would have meant increasing 49.5%