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Agreed. I think it's important to remember the lack of real "mass deportations now" when you see two things: 1) low Trump approval rating. Likely due to lack o

Agreed. I think it's important to remember the lack of real "mass deportations now" when you see two things: 1) low Trump approval rating. Likely due to lack of following through on these promises (rather than disapproval of the promises themselves) 2) protests against deportations. Why do dems simultaneously crow about their superior deportation numbers while condemning current efforts as heavy handed and cruel?

axus 11mo ago
It's the untrained masked men with guns dragging people away because the computer said to, that's the new heavy-handed method that America has not seen before except in WW2 Germany and the Soviet Union.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > You made this up Correct. "Once hired, ICE agents receive training before beginning fieldwork" [1]. That said, "unlike many law enforcement roles, no previous experience in law enforcement is required, and candidates do not need to take a pre-employment exam." And the training is minimal, as evidenced by the dismal deportation figures. > so just normal law enforcement arresting people Normal law enforcement is bound by laws and identifies itself. We do that to prevent abuses of power and to ensure that unidentifiable agents shoving Americans into unmarked cars is something that raises alarm, because there is zero assurance it's ICE versus e.g. foreign operatives or gangs. > Oh no everyone its WWII Germany oh no I mean it's my political opponents governing These processes are being kept under wraps because they're a massive expansion of state power. The kind conservatives and libertartians oppose. The narrow branch of MAGA that's distrating federal law enforcement isn't representative of any governing coalition. Understanding why process matters is difficult for everyone when your guy is in charge. A good method is to imagine a left-wing President having these extralegal authorities and resources. [1] https://ktla.com/news/local-news/what-it-takes-to-become-an-ice-agent-according-to-official-guidelines/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/what-it-takes-to-become-an-...
  - axus 11mo ago
    Here's a job posting for CBP: https://www.usajobs.gov/job/849185400 https://www.usajobs.gov/job/849185400 I'm having trouble finding the ICE requirements, my understanding is even less than CBP. The ones without firearms training won't have guns, fortunately. Compare to state police officers, who go through half a year of academy. FBI needs a college education or two years work experience, and then they do another 1000 hours of training. If you've ever watched real cops working, the difference in training / professionalism is obvious. They will identify themselves, and be familiar with the case history before dragging anyone away. Here's one of the apps used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Fortify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Fortify . ICE agents aren't psychic. There's a database of people who's legal status has expired, the database is not perfect. An ICE official decides who is guilty and issues a civil arrest warrant. The supervisor sends agents to where the computer has tracked them, and the agents arrests if the computer says so. There's no judge issuing the warrant before, or trying the case afterward. These are a real changes in America, we have a right to speak about it, and it's reasonable to guard against these tools being turned on Trump's "enemies within" next.
anigbrowl 11mo ago
I think the answer to 2) is that the Obama administration scrupulously followed the law, actually targeted those with criminal records rather than grabbing people just based on their ethnicity, and didn't engage in practices like sending people to prisons in third countries such as El Salvador. I suspect you already know this, given your choice to draw a contrast between numbers and methods.
metamet 11mo ago
> Likely due to lack of following through on these promises (rather than disapproval of the promises themselves) No. Most of it has to do with the fact that masked, unidentified ICE agents are abducting and disappearing people with no due process. American citizens are being taken away. People who are here legally are being abducted and sent to countries they aren't from. Of the deportations, Trump said they would be targeted toward violent criminals. Over 90% of those who have been rounded up have no criminal history. Masked men with weapons who refuse to identify themselves are shooting people and lying about it, directly refuted by video others took of the event. This isn't some case where "Americans are upset Trump isn't doing what he said!". This is a case where Americans are finally seeing the reality of what he is doing and are sickened by it.
- frumplestlatz 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - metamet 11mo ago
    Ah, I see how you perceive this situation. You think the Democrats manufactured a police state by flooding America with undocumented immigrants in order to get Republicans to go full gestopo in order to fix it. Some 5D chess move where the left is to blame for "forcing" the right into authoritarianism. And somehow the videos coming from communities within America are just "hysterics". So just pure conspiratorial nonsense that absolves all blame from the perpetuator and abuser. Got it.
    - frumplestlatz 11mo ago
      No, it’s not a police state in the first place. The belief that it is? Hysterics being fed by your media diet. The videos that you’re seeing of people losing their minds over law enforcement actually doing their jobs? Those videos are not evidence of a police state. A police state would have locked them up the minute they started their ridiculous, childish public tantrums. They’re evidence of the hysteria people like you are driven to by the media you consume. Do you not realize that outside your bubble, this is how you and your compatriots are perceived? Hysterical and fully disconnected from reality?

axus 11mo ago

It's the untrained masked men with guns dragging people away because the computer said to, that's the new heavy-handed method that America has not seen before except in WW2 Germany and the Soviet Union.

ahmeneeroe-v2 11mo ago
[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  > You made this up Correct. "Once hired, ICE agents receive training before beginning fieldwork" [1]. That said, "unlike many law enforcement roles, no previous experience in law enforcement is required, and candidates do not need to take a pre-employment exam." And the training is minimal, as evidenced by the dismal deportation figures. > so just normal law enforcement arresting people Normal law enforcement is bound by laws and identifies itself. We do that to prevent abuses of power and to ensure that unidentifiable agents shoving Americans into unmarked cars is something that raises alarm, because there is zero assurance it's ICE versus e.g. foreign operatives or gangs. > Oh no everyone its WWII Germany oh no I mean it's my political opponents governing These processes are being kept under wraps because they're a massive expansion of state power. The kind conservatives and libertartians oppose. The narrow branch of MAGA that's distrating federal law enforcement isn't representative of any governing coalition. Understanding why process matters is difficult for everyone when your guy is in charge. A good method is to imagine a left-wing President having these extralegal authorities and resources. [1] https://ktla.com/news/local-news/what-it-takes-to-become-an-ice-agent-according-to-official-guidelines/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/what-it-takes-to-become-an-...
- axus 11mo ago
  Here's a job posting for CBP: https://www.usajobs.gov/job/849185400 https://www.usajobs.gov/job/849185400 I'm having trouble finding the ICE requirements, my understanding is even less than CBP. The ones without firearms training won't have guns, fortunately. Compare to state police officers, who go through half a year of academy. FBI needs a college education or two years work experience, and then they do another 1000 hours of training. If you've ever watched real cops working, the difference in training / professionalism is obvious. They will identify themselves, and be familiar with the case history before dragging anyone away. Here's one of the apps used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Fortify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Fortify . ICE agents aren't psychic. There's a database of people who's legal status has expired, the database is not perfect. An ICE official decides who is guilty and issues a civil arrest warrant. The supervisor sends agents to where the computer has tracked them, and the agents arrests if the computer says so. There's no judge issuing the warrant before, or trying the case afterward. These are a real changes in America, we have a right to speak about it, and it's reasonable to guard against these tools being turned on Trump's "enemies within" next.

anigbrowl 11mo ago

I think the answer to 2) is that the Obama administration scrupulously followed the law, actually targeted those with criminal records rather than grabbing people just based on their ethnicity, and didn't engage in practices like sending people to prisons in third countries such as El Salvador. I suspect you already know this, given your choice to draw a contrast between numbers and methods.

metamet 11mo ago

> Likely due to lack of following through on these promises (rather than disapproval of the promises themselves) No. Most of it has to do with the fact that masked, unidentified ICE agents are abducting and disappearing people with no due process. American citizens are being taken away. People who are here legally are being abducted and sent to countries they aren't from. Of the deportations, Trump said they would be targeted toward violent criminals. Over 90% of those who have been rounded up have no criminal history. Masked men with weapons who refuse to identify themselves are shooting people and lying about it, directly refuted by video others took of the event. This isn't some case where "Americans are upset Trump isn't doing what he said!". This is a case where Americans are finally seeing the reality of what he is doing and are sickened by it.

frumplestlatz 11mo ago
[flagged]
- metamet 11mo ago
  Ah, I see how you perceive this situation. You think the Democrats manufactured a police state by flooding America with undocumented immigrants in order to get Republicans to go full gestopo in order to fix it. Some 5D chess move where the left is to blame for "forcing" the right into authoritarianism. And somehow the videos coming from communities within America are just "hysterics". So just pure conspiratorial nonsense that absolves all blame from the perpetuator and abuser. Got it.
  - frumplestlatz 11mo ago
    No, it’s not a police state in the first place. The belief that it is? Hysterics being fed by your media diet. The videos that you’re seeing of people losing their minds over law enforcement actually doing their jobs? Those videos are not evidence of a police state. A police state would have locked them up the minute they started their ridiculous, childish public tantrums. They’re evidence of the hysteria people like you are driven to by the media you consume. Do you not realize that outside your bubble, this is how you and your compatriots are perceived? Hysterical and fully disconnected from reality?