4 ms·

Drove a new Hyundai with dealer plates from AZ to Minnesota and got pulled over by Bethany, MO city police on I-35 in northern MO with no probable cause other t

Drove a new Hyundai with dealer plates from AZ to Minnesota and got pulled over by Bethany, MO city police on I-35 in northern MO with no probable cause other than window tint being too dark. They tore the car apart certain that I was muling drugs (removed seats, body panels, etc). Took 6 hours. Never found anything and left me with "we know you have committed a crime, we just cannot find it, but you will get caught". I had to put the car back together myself in the dark. Retired age men driving dealer plate cars eastbound onto I-80 in Nebraska out of Colorado from I-76 get stopped ALL THE TIME as potential drug mules.

dylan604 11mo ago
I'm confused. Are you saying they disassembled your car right there where you were pulled over? They had the tools on hand to do this? They didn't tow your car to a shop to have it searched? I've seen many many a car stop get searched by hand and/or with canine. Not once have I ever seen removal of seats/paneling/etc on the side of the road. So this is a bit much to take on first read without further questions
- stevenjgarner 11mo ago
  Yes that is what I am saying. Most cops carry a multi tool at the minimum (with Phillips screwdriver). They also had a standard 10mm socket (carried by MANY cops and all that is required to dismantle much of any Hyundai). Using their multi tool, they removed the fender liners (wheel well liners) from all 4 wheels, the trunk side trim (luggage compartment side trim) from both sides - all of which just has plastic push-pin scrivets (retainer clips). They broke 5 of them. They folded down my back seats (after removing all my personal items out to the shoulder in the rain), then unbolted and removed the back seat. I do a LOT of interstate driving, and it is not at all uncommon to see this happen. This is not the only time I have been in situations where authority has been exceeded. My attitude is to generally be cooperative (without giving consent) as my experience has taught me that is the most painless way to go.
  - dylan604 11mo ago
    Did you ever ask for a supervisor/sergeant to be called? If they are in on it to then you're no worse off, but if they can come out and rein in an out of control patrol then so much the better.
    - stevenjgarner 11mo ago
      One of them WAS a sergeant. My hope was that a State Trooper would stop and reign things in a bit. Just lots of semis thundering by. Otherwise, it can get pretty quiet on rural interstates at night.
    - MisterTea 11mo ago
      I was hassled once for driving without my head lights on at night - when they were in fact on - in NYC and one of the cops was a white shirt lieutenant. They were rude, insulting and were obviously trying to get a rise out of me. I kept cool along with my passenger and after some simple questioning and running my ID they let me go. It was obviously a fishing expedition but for what I can only guess.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 11mo ago
    Driving on I-70 or I-80/81 through Ohio definitely gets you noticed. There's a lot of meth in Ohio...
  - ssl-3 11mo ago
    Just adding some perspective from someone who has been inside the trunk of a lot of cop cars over the years[1]: A good many cops (maybe not >50%, but a very significant percentage) carry a pretty decent ad-hoc toolkit in their vehicles. There's often a toolbox with screwdrivers, socketry, pliers, some wrenches, maybe a hammer and/or other basic handtools. It's pretty common for folks who know how to use tools to keep some on-hand, and cops are not an exception. [1]: Yeah, so... I should probably explain that part. Some of my work involves 2-way radios, and some of that 2-way radio business has lead to me putting radios and stuff into things like cop cars. I've emptied out hundreds of cop cars to get access to what I need, and have certainly climbed into the trunk of dozens of them to be where I need to be. (Someone has to do it, and sometimes that person is me.)
- cestith 11mo ago
  This is regular, typical behavior for some departments.
- Diederich 11mo ago
  They don't need a lot of tools to do such a deep 'search' of your car, they're not under any requirement or mandate to make it easy or even possible to repair. In my 40+ years of driving, I've seen such disassembled cars along the road a hand full of times.
LocalH 11mo ago
The cruelty is the point
mzs 11mo ago
This happened to me, in East Germany. I'm sorry it happens now in the Land of the Free.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- nxobject 11mo ago
  I've always wanted to ask people who lived in East Germany: what similarities and differences do you see with the modern American surveillance infrastructure?
  - layer8 11mo ago
    Parent commenter probably didn’t live in East Germany, it’s the visitors’ cars that were searched.
    - mzs 11mo ago
      Yes, I’m Polish American and was traveling from West Germany to Poland. It wasn’t so bad once we bribed them. It turned-out the guards just wanted Marlboros, Johnny Walker, and US dollars. We still had to reassemble the Mercedes.
      - hackermolly 11mo ago
        That's absolute bullshit. The police in Germany need a search warrant to take your car apart. Unless you give them permission to do so.
        defrost 11mo ago
        German border police and Customs (Zoll) have a right to stop and search within 50 km of the border.
        stefanka 11mo ago
        They refer to the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) that likely had different rules
kylehotchkiss 11mo ago
The more this flyover-state mentality policing continues (obvious civil asset forfeiture fishing - dealers might be carrying cash from a previous sale, etc), the less people are going to drive through them, further depriving these states of a revenue source. Of course, this mentality could be voted out by the residents of these states, but I'm not optimistic.
- stevenjgarner 11mo ago
  I hope mightily that you are correct and it is restricted to the flyover states. I fear that the reality is probably that in populated states the police are so preoccupied dealing with real crime they have little opportunity to take "preventative action". Being as empathic as I can, I would say that the cops in flyover states deal with a LOT of transport-related drug crimes (that's why they are called "flyover"), so I get their focus. I have just learned to exist below the radar as much as possible. I no longer drive dealer plated cars and have no vehicles registered in my name (so I never come up in ALPR systems). I try to be compliant in every way possible. But then again that's what real criminals do too.

dylan604 11mo ago

I'm confused. Are you saying they disassembled your car right there where you were pulled over? They had the tools on hand to do this? They didn't tow your car to a shop to have it searched? I've seen many many a car stop get searched by hand and/or with canine. Not once have I ever seen removal of seats/paneling/etc on the side of the road. So this is a bit much to take on first read without further questions

stevenjgarner 11mo ago
Yes that is what I am saying. Most cops carry a multi tool at the minimum (with Phillips screwdriver). They also had a standard 10mm socket (carried by MANY cops and all that is required to dismantle much of any Hyundai). Using their multi tool, they removed the fender liners (wheel well liners) from all 4 wheels, the trunk side trim (luggage compartment side trim) from both sides - all of which just has plastic push-pin scrivets (retainer clips). They broke 5 of them. They folded down my back seats (after removing all my personal items out to the shoulder in the rain), then unbolted and removed the back seat. I do a LOT of interstate driving, and it is not at all uncommon to see this happen. This is not the only time I have been in situations where authority has been exceeded. My attitude is to generally be cooperative (without giving consent) as my experience has taught me that is the most painless way to go.
- dylan604 11mo ago
  Did you ever ask for a supervisor/sergeant to be called? If they are in on it to then you're no worse off, but if they can come out and rein in an out of control patrol then so much the better.
  - stevenjgarner 11mo ago
    One of them WAS a sergeant. My hope was that a State Trooper would stop and reign things in a bit. Just lots of semis thundering by. Otherwise, it can get pretty quiet on rural interstates at night.
  - MisterTea 11mo ago
    I was hassled once for driving without my head lights on at night - when they were in fact on - in NYC and one of the cops was a white shirt lieutenant. They were rude, insulting and were obviously trying to get a rise out of me. I kept cool along with my passenger and after some simple questioning and running my ID they let me go. It was obviously a fishing expedition but for what I can only guess.
- FuriouslyAdrift 11mo ago
  Driving on I-70 or I-80/81 through Ohio definitely gets you noticed. There's a lot of meth in Ohio...
- ssl-3 11mo ago
  Just adding some perspective from someone who has been inside the trunk of a lot of cop cars over the years[1]: A good many cops (maybe not >50%, but a very significant percentage) carry a pretty decent ad-hoc toolkit in their vehicles. There's often a toolbox with screwdrivers, socketry, pliers, some wrenches, maybe a hammer and/or other basic handtools. It's pretty common for folks who know how to use tools to keep some on-hand, and cops are not an exception. [1]: Yeah, so... I should probably explain that part. Some of my work involves 2-way radios, and some of that 2-way radio business has lead to me putting radios and stuff into things like cop cars. I've emptied out hundreds of cop cars to get access to what I need, and have certainly climbed into the trunk of dozens of them to be where I need to be. (Someone has to do it, and sometimes that person is me.)
cestith 11mo ago
This is regular, typical behavior for some departments.
Diederich 11mo ago
They don't need a lot of tools to do such a deep 'search' of your car, they're not under any requirement or mandate to make it easy or even possible to repair. In my 40+ years of driving, I've seen such disassembled cars along the road a hand full of times.

LocalH 11mo ago

The cruelty is the point

mzs 11mo ago

This happened to me, in East Germany. I'm sorry it happens now in the Land of the Free.

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
nxobject 11mo ago
I've always wanted to ask people who lived in East Germany: what similarities and differences do you see with the modern American surveillance infrastructure?
- layer8 11mo ago
  Parent commenter probably didn’t live in East Germany, it’s the visitors’ cars that were searched.
  - mzs 11mo ago
    Yes, I’m Polish American and was traveling from West Germany to Poland. It wasn’t so bad once we bribed them. It turned-out the guards just wanted Marlboros, Johnny Walker, and US dollars. We still had to reassemble the Mercedes.
    - hackermolly 11mo ago
      That's absolute bullshit. The police in Germany need a search warrant to take your car apart. Unless you give them permission to do so.
      - defrost 11mo ago
        German border police and Customs (Zoll) have a right to stop and search within 50 km of the border.
      - stefanka 11mo ago
        They refer to the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) that likely had different rules

kylehotchkiss 11mo ago

The more this flyover-state mentality policing continues (obvious civil asset forfeiture fishing - dealers might be carrying cash from a previous sale, etc), the less people are going to drive through them, further depriving these states of a revenue source. Of course, this mentality could be voted out by the residents of these states, but I'm not optimistic.

stevenjgarner 11mo ago
I hope mightily that you are correct and it is restricted to the flyover states. I fear that the reality is probably that in populated states the police are so preoccupied dealing with real crime they have little opportunity to take "preventative action". Being as empathic as I can, I would say that the cops in flyover states deal with a LOT of transport-related drug crimes (that's why they are called "flyover"), so I get their focus. I have just learned to exist below the radar as much as possible. I no longer drive dealer plated cars and have no vehicles registered in my name (so I never come up in ALPR systems). I try to be compliant in every way possible. But then again that's what real criminals do too.