7 ms·

Unfortunately, law enforcement often isn't subject to US law in practice, only in theory. And even on those few occasions where they are held to account for cri

by anonym29 11mo ago

Unfortunately, law enforcement often isn't subject to US law in practice, only in theory. And even on those few occasions where they are held to account for crimes against the public, the settlement is paid out with the public's own money rather than the officer's.

awesome_dude 11mo ago
Devil's advocate: If the officer is acting within the policy/training they are given by their employer (and that includes not being told to not do something) then it's the employer's fault, and we (the taxpayer/ultimate employer) are liable for that.
- LocalH 11mo ago
  "I was just following orders"
  - awesome_dude 11mo ago
    You are bound to obey the legal orders/directions of your employer. If you deem them to be illegal - the onus is on you to prove that, in a court of law, whilst you are unemployed because the employer sacked you for disobeying their instructions/orders It's all cool to be on the internet saying things like that, but when it comes to reality, I DOUBT you would do anything other than acquiesce.
    - awesome_dude 11mo ago
      For anyone that thinks otherwise - the POTUS is currently in a dispute with Senators about this https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/11/20/punishable-by-death-trump-threatens-democrats-with-sedition-charges https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/11/20/punishable-by-deat...
- donkyrf 11mo ago
  The devil doesn't need an advocate. And you are misrepresenting the situation of what is paid out.
  - awesome_dude 11mo ago
    Nope. As proved by the fact that you have no evidence.
    - donkyrf 11mo ago
      That’s not proof. I am not going to debate a liar. There’s no value in treating you with respect. You don’t warrant it. You’re the worthless product of two awful people who never should have met.
- cestith 11mo ago
  Officers are licensed professionals. Doctors carry insurance. Engineers carry insurance. Teachers carry legal insurance, too. Sometimes the employer is also financially liable for damages, but not solely. Yet the police tend to let a city or county pay the bill instead of the officer, the department, or the union even when the officer is well outside of training and policy.
  - awesome_dude 11mo ago
    "Sometimes" "Tend to" Do you have any citeable evidence of this being an actual thing, or is it just vibes?
    - sleepybrett 11mo ago
      Almost every small business carries insurance.
    - lobf 11mo ago
      >Do you have any citeable evidence of this being an actual thing, or is it just vibes? Are you really unaware of city settlements for police misconduct? Let me turn the question around- can you name a single example of a police department, union, or office paying out a settlement? Has it ever happened?
      - awesome_dude 11mo ago
        First of all - I said something different to what you are claiming I should produce citations for I said, and I will quote "If the officer is acting within the policy/training they are given by their employer (and that includes not being told to not do something) then it's the employer's fault, and we (the taxpayer/ultimate employer) are liable for that." Citation: https://lawrencekstimes.com/2023/03/01/tran-case-settles/ https://lawrencekstimes.com/2023/03/01/tran-case-settles/ Tran’s criminal case was prosecuted under former DA Branson’s administration; however, it has impacted the policies of District Attorney Suzanne Valdez, who took office in January 2021. The DA’s office did not have a formal, written Brady-Giglio policy until Valdez implemented hers in January 2022. Valdez’s Brady-Giglio policy asks law enforcement agencies to share information about “allegations” of misconduct made against their officers — not just “findings” of misconduct. I wanted a citation of "even when the officer is well outside training and policy" Because I cannot find any such occurrence As to your demand for me to cite things that I never spoke of there are the following cases (the ones I have highlighted indicate that not just the city were liable, meaning that officers/unions/insurance also paid out) https://policefundingdatabase.org/explore-the-database/settlements/ https://policefundingdatabase.org/explore-the-database/settl... > In November 2023, a settlement was reached between protester Eli Durand-McDonnell and two police officers who arrested him during a demonstration outside the summer home of Leonard Leo, a leader of the Federalist Society. Police arrested Durand-McDonnell in July 2022 on a disorderly conduct charge amid protests over Leo’s role in efforts to overturn Roe v. Wade. The Hancock County district attorney later dismissed the charge, citing the need for caution when political speech is involved. Durand-McDonnell subsequently filed a federal lawsuit against Officer Kevin Edgecomb and Officer Nathan Formby, alleging false arrest and violation of his free speech rights. Details of the settlement were not publicly available as of early November 2023. > The family of Fanta Bility, an eight-year-old girl who was fatally shot by police outside a high school football game in 2021, reached an $11 million settlement with the Borough of Sharon Hill, Pennsylvania, as well as its police chief and three former officers involved. Police opened fire after a verbal altercation between teens escalated into a gunfight. Police gunfire inadvertently struck Bility and injured three others, including her twelve-year-old sister. Officers Brian Devaney, Sean Dolan, and Devon Smith were fired and later sentenced to probation, pleading guilty to reckless endangerment. As part of the settlement, Sharon Hill agreed to implement enhanced officer training, particularly concerning the use of deadly force. The Bility family, who established the Fanta Bility Foundation to honor her legacy and advocate for police reform, emphasized that no settlement could erase the tragedy but expressed hope for healing and change. [Not a payout] > In April 2023, as part of a settlement in a class action lawsuit over the treatment of demonstrators in 2020, former Minneapolis, Minnesota, police union head Lieutenant Bob Kroll agreed he would not work as a police officer or law enforcement leader in Hennepin, Ramsey, or Anoka counties during the next decade. The lawsuit alleged that Kroll’s actions as a de facto policymaker led police to use excessive force against demonstrators in the protests that followed the May 2020 murder of George Floyd by a Minneapolis Police Department officer. Under the terms of the settlement, Kroll also agreed that he would not serve on the Minnesota Board of Peace Officer Standards and Training, and that he would testify in any trials related to the suit. And, because people are saying "insurance will pay it" > In February 2023, the insurance carrier of the City of Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, agreed to pay $2 million to Clinton Jones Sr., whose son was fatally shot by an undercover police officer. In 2015, then-Officer Nouman Raja shot and killed Corey Jones after his car broke down on an Interstate 95 off-ramp. Jones was on the phone with roadside assistance at the time of the shooting, and the recorded call revealed that Raja never identified himself as a police officer. Raja was found guilty of manslaughter and attempted murder in a separate criminal case in 2019 and received a twenty-five-year prison sentence.

awesome_dude 11mo ago

Devil's advocate: If the officer is acting within the policy/training they are given by their employer (and that includes not being told to not do something) then it's the employer's fault, and we (the taxpayer/ultimate employer) are liable for that.

LocalH 11mo ago
"I was just following orders"
- awesome_dude 11mo ago
  You are bound to obey the legal orders/directions of your employer. If you deem them to be illegal - the onus is on you to prove that, in a court of law, whilst you are unemployed because the employer sacked you for disobeying their instructions/orders It's all cool to be on the internet saying things like that, but when it comes to reality, I DOUBT you would do anything other than acquiesce.
  - awesome_dude 11mo ago
    For anyone that thinks otherwise - the POTUS is currently in a dispute with Senators about this https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/11/20/punishable-by-death-trump-threatens-democrats-with-sedition-charges https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/11/20/punishable-by-deat...
donkyrf 11mo ago
The devil doesn't need an advocate. And you are misrepresenting the situation of what is paid out.
- awesome_dude 11mo ago
  Nope. As proved by the fact that you have no evidence.
  - donkyrf 11mo ago
    That’s not proof. I am not going to debate a liar. There’s no value in treating you with respect. You don’t warrant it. You’re the worthless product of two awful people who never should have met.
cestith 11mo ago
Officers are licensed professionals. Doctors carry insurance. Engineers carry insurance. Teachers carry legal insurance, too. Sometimes the employer is also financially liable for damages, but not solely. Yet the police tend to let a city or county pay the bill instead of the officer, the department, or the union even when the officer is well outside of training and policy.
- awesome_dude 11mo ago
  "Sometimes" "Tend to" Do you have any citeable evidence of this being an actual thing, or is it just vibes?
  - sleepybrett 11mo ago
    Almost every small business carries insurance.
  - lobf 11mo ago
    >Do you have any citeable evidence of this being an actual thing, or is it just vibes? Are you really unaware of city settlements for police misconduct? Let me turn the question around- can you name a single example of a police department, union, or office paying out a settlement? Has it ever happened?
    - awesome_dude 11mo ago
      First of all - I said something different to what you are claiming I should produce citations for I said, and I will quote "If the officer is acting within the policy/training they are given by their employer (and that includes not being told to not do something) then it's the employer's fault, and we (the taxpayer/ultimate employer) are liable for that." Citation: https://lawrencekstimes.com/2023/03/01/tran-case-settles/ https://lawrencekstimes.com/2023/03/01/tran-case-settles/ Tran’s criminal case was prosecuted under former DA Branson’s administration; however, it has impacted the policies of District Attorney Suzanne Valdez, who took office in January 2021. The DA’s office did not have a formal, written Brady-Giglio policy until Valdez implemented hers in January 2022. Valdez’s Brady-Giglio policy asks law enforcement agencies to share information about “allegations” of misconduct made against their officers — not just “findings” of misconduct. I wanted a citation of "even when the officer is well outside training and policy" Because I cannot find any such occurrence As to your demand for me to cite things that I never spoke of there are the following cases (the ones I have highlighted indicate that not just the city were liable, meaning that officers/unions/insurance also paid out) https://policefundingdatabase.org/explore-the-database/settlements/ https://policefundingdatabase.org/explore-the-database/settl... > In November 2023, a settlement was reached between protester Eli Durand-McDonnell and two police officers who arrested him during a demonstration outside the summer home of Leonard Leo, a leader of the Federalist Society. Police arrested Durand-McDonnell in July 2022 on a disorderly conduct charge amid protests over Leo’s role in efforts to overturn Roe v. Wade. The Hancock County district attorney later dismissed the charge, citing the need for caution when political speech is involved. Durand-McDonnell subsequently filed a federal lawsuit against Officer Kevin Edgecomb and Officer Nathan Formby, alleging false arrest and violation of his free speech rights. Details of the settlement were not publicly available as of early November 2023. > The family of Fanta Bility, an eight-year-old girl who was fatally shot by police outside a high school football game in 2021, reached an $11 million settlement with the Borough of Sharon Hill, Pennsylvania, as well as its police chief and three former officers involved. Police opened fire after a verbal altercation between teens escalated into a gunfight. Police gunfire inadvertently struck Bility and injured three others, including her twelve-year-old sister. Officers Brian Devaney, Sean Dolan, and Devon Smith were fired and later sentenced to probation, pleading guilty to reckless endangerment. As part of the settlement, Sharon Hill agreed to implement enhanced officer training, particularly concerning the use of deadly force. The Bility family, who established the Fanta Bility Foundation to honor her legacy and advocate for police reform, emphasized that no settlement could erase the tragedy but expressed hope for healing and change. [Not a payout] > In April 2023, as part of a settlement in a class action lawsuit over the treatment of demonstrators in 2020, former Minneapolis, Minnesota, police union head Lieutenant Bob Kroll agreed he would not work as a police officer or law enforcement leader in Hennepin, Ramsey, or Anoka counties during the next decade. The lawsuit alleged that Kroll’s actions as a de facto policymaker led police to use excessive force against demonstrators in the protests that followed the May 2020 murder of George Floyd by a Minneapolis Police Department officer. Under the terms of the settlement, Kroll also agreed that he would not serve on the Minnesota Board of Peace Officer Standards and Training, and that he would testify in any trials related to the suit. And, because people are saying "insurance will pay it" > In February 2023, the insurance carrier of the City of Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, agreed to pay $2 million to Clinton Jones Sr., whose son was fatally shot by an undercover police officer. In 2015, then-Officer Nouman Raja shot and killed Corey Jones after his car broke down on an Interstate 95 off-ramp. Jones was on the phone with roadside assistance at the time of the shooting, and the recorded call revealed that Raja never identified himself as a police officer. Raja was found guilty of manslaughter and attempted murder in a separate criminal case in 2019 and received a twenty-five-year prison sentence.