4 ms·
What gets lost in this debate, which to me seems settled in favor of the actual science done over the last several decades, is how insulting and dehumanizing it
by JohnMakin 11mo ago
What gets lost in this debate, which to me seems settled in favor of the actual science done over the last several decades, is how insulting and dehumanizing it is to use autism spectrum disorder as the boogeyman for vaccines, to the point people are passing on treatment for completely preventable, horrible diseases on the belief there is a small chance their kid could come out gasp "autistic."
Up to 70% of people on the autism spectrum are considered high functioning, requiring minimal to moderate support. That's the other insulting thing about it - the fact that the worst autistic outcomes (nonverbal, low IQ, etc.) are used to represent the whole of the population.
The whole thing is gross. Say somehow you could eliminate autism spectrum disorder - there goes half your IT staff.
- pipeline_peak 11mo ago[flagged]
- JohnMakin 11mo agoThis is a gross misinterpretation of what I said.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- tekne 11mo agoI think the issue is that autism is not necessarily a disorder. I'm mildly autistic and I like the way I am. Really. I don't consider it a disability at all; it's got pros and cons, but for every thing that I'm worse at than a "normal" person, I feel there's something else equally valuable I'm better at, so it balances out as a slight positive for me and a big positive for humanity because, as the OP alluded to, diversity enables specialisation. The issue is of course some people genuinely experience autism as a disability, and the more severe it is, the more likely that is to be the case. But you can make a solid argument that autism is not necessarily disability: like height, gigantism is unhealthy, but being tall can be adaptive!
- frumplestlatz 11mo agoI’m high functioning and sure —it’s fine-ish, I have advantages that somewhat balance out my disadvantages, and it’s not like I could change it even if I wanted to, so why despair about it? However, I’d much rather not have to deal with it in the first place, and if I could be changed, I’d happily change. If we can avoid future generations having to deal with it at this same relatively high rate, great.
- JohnMakin 11mo agoTo be clear, me too. I wouldn’t change how I am at all even if it sometimes causes challenges. There is a movement in neurodivergence trying to define autism as a different human experience, rather than in the framing of a disability, but this is still controversial within autism advocate circles.
- avtar 11mo agoAnother way to interpret the parent comment would be that a lot of people are autistic.
- pipeline_peak 11mo agoThe parent comment is also saying if they weren’t autistic, half the it force would be gone. Sounds pretty black and white.
- JohnMakin 11mo agoIt’s saying that the conditions and traits that tend to select for IT people is often represented in autistic populations. Anyone that’s managed in IT can attest to this. Maybe “half” was a figurative exaggeration for effect, but you seem to be injecting an entirely different meaning and bias into the comment.
- pipeline_peak 11mo ago[flagged]
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 11mo ago> I’m not vilifying you, it was just a poor choice of words. You're not being honest here. Questioning someone's belief and calling it gross is vilifying, regardless of any agreement or lack thereof from a broader community. Additionally, finding the one disagreeable point and harping on that instead of any of the rest of the points they made is another means of vilification.
- JohnMakin 11mo agoI literally did not say this. Go back and read it.
- pipeline_peak 11mo ago>Say somehow you could eliminate autism spectrum disorder - there goes half your IT staff. If they didn’t have autism, they wouldn’t be in IT
- NedF 11mo ago[dead]
- stevenwoo 11mo agoI don't agree with all of her book's arguments and associations but Naomi Klein has a compelling explanation for how this happened in her book Doppleganger.
- infotainment 11mo agoI think the real issue is simply that the definition of ASD has been expanded to the point of near-meaninglessness. If we're applying the same label to: 1. Someone who is totally nonverbal and effectively unable to function in society 2. Someone who is kind of socially awkward ...then maybe it's time to come up with a new labeling system. ("Autism" in the context of vaccines usually is implicitly referring exclusively to [1])
- JohnMakin 11mo agoIt's not near meaningless though. Like not even close. And I'm also not sure people at large going for this argument really care to differentiate because these terms already exist that highlight the differences within the DSM for ASD!
- peterashford 11mo agoThat's why the word "Spectrum" is used
- jfengel 11mo agoThe distinction you're drawing here is the OP's point. People in category one are still human beings. The CDC is suggesting that people should avoid vaccines because death from measles is preferable to outcome #1. It's not merely that people in category #2 hate being implicated in that. It's also insulting to the people in category #1 as well. They are being told that their lives are utterly worthless.