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RFK Jr.'s loathesome edits: CDC website now falsely links vaccines and autism
- Spivak 1y agoDoes there become a point where reporting on this kind of stuff is just feeding the trolls? Ars is both giving them the reaction they want and platforming their nonsense. The government put up a poster that says vaccines bad very autism and maybe the right response is to just ignore it. This admin seems to be fueled by outrage and very loud showy public displays of basically nothing when you get down to it. Cool story RFK, anyway moving on.
- squigz 1y agoIt would be more irresponsible to ignore it than anything else. A tempered response would be better.
- Spivak 1y agoBut why? Do you feel the need to respond to those weirdos in the street yelling about how god hates fags and the end of days or whatever? Is anything gained by acknowledging them at all? There's plenty of real stuff this admin is doing to respond to; focusing on the performative nonsense that exists seemingly to keep them 'winning' in the news cycle to their base might just be wasting your breath.
- squigz 1y ago> Do you feel the need to respond to those weirdos in the street yelling about how god hates fags and the end of days or whatever? There's a huge difference between the seriousness of "the official disease control of the US government" saying some nonsense and "random citizens yelling in the street" doing so. > Is anything gained by acknowledging them at all? Is there anything gained by ignoring them? I'm sure it won't seem very performative to the kids who aren't vaccinated and get sick, or autistic folks who don't appreciate the correlation. > plenty of real stuff this admin is doing to respond to I'm sure we can respond to at least 2 things.
- smackeyacky 1y agoBecause it normalises dangerous bullshit and that should be a line in the sand for any responsible human. You can’t dismiss it because it’s part of a much wider pattern that is fuelling the justification of other dangerous bullshit we used to suppress in the pursuit of harmony.
- giraffe_lady 1y agoThis is the real stuff this admin is doing. Using the public health apparatus to discredit and dismantle one of the most successful medical projects in human history is real stuff.
- multjoy 1y agoThose weirdos on the street aren't your actual government institutions. This is 1984 territory, without hyperbole. They are rewriting what you see so that you will always have been at war with Eurasia.
- triceratops 1y agoIf people get used to ignoring government health recommendations, what happens if a responsible government comes back in power?
- frumplestlatz 1y agoYou’ll have to let me know when that has ever really happened. I can’t recall a single government in my lifetime that didn’t push some remarkably stupid and irresponsible nonsense. People my age probably remember the classic 90s “food pyramid” in school and on the back of sugared cereal boxes — it pushed empty carbs as the the foundation of a healthy diet.
- viraptor 1y agoThere's a difference between doing something well meant, failing, and improving -vs- going back to theories already proven wrong and harmful. There's a reason we don't have the food pyramid - we're learning.
- amscanne 1y agoYou don't think that the current crop of vaccine-skeptics are mostly well-intentioned and that the movement will ultimately fade-away decades down the line? It seems identical to me: soft corruption and bad science shaping government policy. Annoying and bad, but also hopefully temporary (but may do damage in the meantime). I agree that it happens with all governments. Has everyone forgotten the sea of bad science that was COVID policy? Thank god they arrested that paddle-boarder!
- viraptor 1y ago> You don't think that the current crop of vaccine-skeptics are mostly well-intentioned Well intentioned but wrong is only when you have incomplete information. Once your theory has been disproven multiple times and you still ignore it, that's not well intentioned anymore. That's just lying to yourself and others at that point.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- AuthAuth 1y agoConsider how strange this would be for a non American to watch this change go through and no one to bat at eye. This shit is crazy and it needs to be said.
- beeforpork 1y agoWell, many or even most non-Americans generally look up to America to learn. The USA are regarded as the pinnacle of world culture, industry, and commerce by the world. Even in non-western countries, and even if daemonized by certain leaders, the common people generally know that there are the greatest achievements in the USA. A few people may not do so, and may know how bad some corners are cut and how rotten some things are, but that's a minority. Also, if a powerful US politician farts, it is on all the front pages of all media outlets around the world. There's no escape, US news are pushed into all corners. And politicians in the world see that the thug model has worked quite effectively, and so strategies are taken over to do the same everywhere else, like ignoring science and instead citing 'common sense'. All this BS that's currently going on spreads into the last corners of the world as ultimately good ideas, as truths, and the thugs are role models for the world. It is not good. How to explain future to my kids? Yeah, sorry, I am also using the 'kid' argument now.
- nobodywillobsrv 1y agoNo, one should always present a path of how to explain it. This is hard. get the data. gather it.
- JohnMakin 1y agoWhat gets lost in this debate, which to me seems settled in favor of the actual science done over the last several decades, is how insulting and dehumanizing it is to use autism spectrum disorder as the boogeyman for vaccines, to the point people are passing on treatment for completely preventable, horrible diseases on the belief there is a small chance their kid could come out gasp "autistic." Up to 70% of people on the autism spectrum are considered high functioning, requiring minimal to moderate support. That's the other insulting thing about it - the fact that the worst autistic outcomes (nonverbal, low IQ, etc.) are used to represent the whole of the population. The whole thing is gross. Say somehow you could eliminate autism spectrum disorder - there goes half your IT staff.
- pipeline_peak 1y ago[flagged]
- JohnMakin 1y agoThis is a gross misinterpretation of what I said.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- tekne 1y agoI think the issue is that autism is not necessarily a disorder. I'm mildly autistic and I like the way I am. Really. I don't consider it a disability at all; it's got pros and cons, but for every thing that I'm worse at than a "normal" person, I feel there's something else equally valuable I'm better at, so it balances out as a slight positive for me and a big positive for humanity because, as the OP alluded to, diversity enables specialisation. The issue is of course some people genuinely experience autism as a disability, and the more severe it is, the more likely that is to be the case. But you can make a solid argument that autism is not necessarily disability: like height, gigantism is unhealthy, but being tall can be adaptive!
- ChrisArchitect 1y ago[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45992756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45992756
- periodjet 1y ago[flagged]
- sidereal1 1y agoIt has been conclusively ruled out. At some point we don't need to keep checking if the Earth is round because no amount of research and evidence will convince some folks. This isn't a science problem, it's a propaganda problem.
- potatopan 1y agoYes, absolutely, but not just a simple propaganda problem. The US is fully engaged in the Propaganda tactics Orwell summarizes from the Franco era. The purpose of the outlandish claims is not to trick a moron, it is to get people to agree to things they know are untrue to show their allegiance to power is more important to them than truth or their own reason.
- JohnMakin 1y agoIt has been investigated. For decades, in fact. It’s been considered settled science for quite some time.
- triceratops 1y agoWhy single out autism? Have we ruled out vaccines' links to cancer, diabetes, arthritis, eczema, and stuttering?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- lesuorac 1y ago> “Nah no need to investigate any more, enough people have said they’re satisfied.” Such a person would rightly be scoffed at. The thing is, you need a new angle for an investigation to be justified. There have been thousands on studies on vaccines and their long term side-effects. You can't be saying "what if they cause autism" at this point and expect people to drop everything and take you serious. You need to be showing some evidence first because all the low hanging and even high hanging fruit has been picked. It's like if you were going "wheels don't roll". Sure, maybe they don't and reality spins around them. But there's a gazillion studies about tire composition and their effectiveness so if you want somebody to take you seriously you need to show some work first.
- precommunicator 1y agoI highly recommend this deep dive, with some entertainment value: Vaccines and Autism: A Measured Response [1]. It shows how absurd those claims are [1]: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc https://youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc