6 ms·

Because Apple realised that phone users are interested in photos, videos, contacts, documents, appointments etc. not files

Gud 11mo ago
And files…
babypuncher 11mo ago
A file system and its files are a very simple abstraction that lets us organize these exact things. I understand that some people get confused and overwhelmed by a directory structure, but I see that as an education problem, not a UX problem. I was taught all of this in elementary and middle school computer classes in the '90s and early '00s. Having this knowledge early on made me less afraid of my computer, made it feel less like a magical black box, and gave me the confidence to learn more complex topics on my own. Computers become way more capable when the people using them understand fundamentals like directory structures and command line usage. I don't think either of these things are as difficult to learn as reading, writing, and arithmetic (especially if you already have a base level education in those three things). If more "everyday people" just had a little bit more knowledge about these things, they would be able to do way more with their computers with less of a reliance on proprietary solutions that funnel them down whatever path makes someone else the most money.
- 8note 11mo ago
  its a UX probpem insofar as service providers will decide that since they give you a view over the file system, thats enough. i want file system access, but as a power tool. the 50 clicks through different folders is irrelevant to my most common 5 patterns of use. those should be a single click, or 0 clicks
  - brokenmachine 11mo ago
    I tried out zoxide and fzf ctrl-r history on linux (zsh) recently. Game changers. Where is zoxide for my phone? Why is there so little innovation? Trillion dollar companies can't come up with a single new thing. Or rather, won't come up with a single new thing because they're just useless rent seekers. It's absolutely pathetic.
wkat4242 11mo ago
iOS isn't just a phone OS.
- 1-more 11mo ago
  It is. The other OSes have different names.
  - iknowstuff 11mo ago
    Only so they could pretend that iPhones and iPadas are separate platforms under DMA
    - Marsymars 11mo ago
      I generally agree that iOS/iPadOS aren't two different operating systems, but "iPadOS" predates the DMA.
      - giobox 11mo ago
        Barely... the iPadOS brand was introduced in 2019, the European Commission proposed the DMA in 2020, and even prior to this there were obvious noises being made in Europe with regards to future regulation. Maybe its coincidence, but the timing still lines up for this being a response to the threat of EU changes.
        raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        So Apple preemptively split the names because they knew exactly how the unreleased DMA was going to affect them?
        1718627440 11mo ago
        Law drafting in Europe doesn't happen behind closed doors and typically even has consultations with the companies affected by it. It wasn't unreleased only because it wasn't signed yet.
kakacik 11mo ago
One reason I'll never own an apple device, and prefer buying more expensive more open competition. Its just a red line - I own the device by law, if you bend backwards to prevent me from using it via ways that it supports by principle, your product doesn't exist for me.
- vovavili 11mo ago
  You are not Apple's target audience, and there is nothing wrong with that.
  - brokenmachine 11mo ago
    The problem is that because fleecing dummies is so profitable, it encourages the same scummy behavior by other companies.
    - vovavili 11mo ago
      Calling an extremely broad user segment dummies is unreasonably condescending.
      - brokenmachine 11mo ago
        Did I say they were all dummies? You said there's nothing wrong with how Apple exploits their target market. Scummy behavior being normalized is what's wrong with it.
digdugdirk 11mo ago
... This is a joke... Right?
- supertrope 11mo ago
  "Dad, download the PDF and then email it to me." "The file disappeared. I can't find it." "Look in the download folder." "How do I get to that?"
tuetuopay 11mo ago
Despite others thinking you’re crazy, I think you are right. I remember the start of the smartphone era where many of my relatives switched to iPhone because "you know where the pictures are going and where to find them". The worst offender was my dad that had a Samsung phone running windows phone 6 (with an actual start menu) where you had to dig through folders to find jpeg files.
- Gigachad 11mo ago
  Desktop OSs are the worst for mixing random system files with the users own documents. Theres a better balance now where the “Files” app has your documents, downloaded stuff and similar, while system and app data is hidden.
  - pxc 11mo ago
    Isn't that pretty much just Windows? That basically never occurs on Linux and it's not common on macOS, either. All the garbage I have on my work computer (a Mac) in ~/Documents is stuff that OneDrive synced over from when I used to have a Windows computer there. (If I could turn the OneDrive feature that takes over ~/Documents and ~/Downloads, I would.)
    - SchemaLoad 11mo ago
      Linux software is notorious for spewing crap all over the user's home directory. Delete everything inside your /home/name and see how well the system still works. On iOS/iPadOS nothing happens other than not having the documents you saved in there. I'm not sure there even is a good place where programs can store their internal system files without requiring root other than mixed in with the user Home.
      - pxc 11mo ago
        Yes and no. Some older conventions for dotfiles are a bit messy in that they're not necessarily contained under top-level directories like ~/.config or ~/.local, but the hijacking of non-hidden directories for contents unrelated to their purposes, like using ~/Documents for game saves, is basically unheard of (except for some ports of Windows games that retain this bad habit). > On iOS/iPadOS nothing happens other than not having the documents you saved in there. That is, frankly, a ridiculous test for the issue under discussion. Even if everything was stored under a top-level subdirectory set aside for application data in a perfectly orderly way, nuking $HOME would still break things. Besides all that, hidden directories in the root of ~ are conventional¹ places to store application config files and so on, and can't be mistaken for conventional places to store documents. On most Linux-based operating systems, the conventional place to store documents is (obviously) ~/Documents, which is created ahead of time for all users. That folder doesn't generally end up polluted with things that aren't documents. > On iOS/iPadOS nothing happens other than not having the documents you saved in there. If you delete /var/mobile or any of the things that $HOME points to in the context of some app, you'll definitely lose app settings. The app sandboxing on iOS does something nice by sort of forcing app configuration data to live within conventional directories, but none of that is captured in the "what if you delete ~" test. (The fact that $HOME isn't really directly exposed to the user sort of does; the local files you're comparing to $HOME on Linux are actually $HOME/Media on iOS.) ---- 1: https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/ch03s08.html https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/ch03s08.htm... 2: https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki//private/var/mobile https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki//private/var/mobile
standardUser 11mo ago
But what they own is files. Most users aren't interested in mutual funds, but that doesn't mean they don't want them in their retirement portfolio.

Gud 11mo ago

And files…

babypuncher 11mo ago

A file system and its files are a very simple abstraction that lets us organize these exact things. I understand that some people get confused and overwhelmed by a directory structure, but I see that as an education problem, not a UX problem. I was taught all of this in elementary and middle school computer classes in the '90s and early '00s. Having this knowledge early on made me less afraid of my computer, made it feel less like a magical black box, and gave me the confidence to learn more complex topics on my own. Computers become way more capable when the people using them understand fundamentals like directory structures and command line usage. I don't think either of these things are as difficult to learn as reading, writing, and arithmetic (especially if you already have a base level education in those three things). If more "everyday people" just had a little bit more knowledge about these things, they would be able to do way more with their computers with less of a reliance on proprietary solutions that funnel them down whatever path makes someone else the most money.

8note 11mo ago
its a UX probpem insofar as service providers will decide that since they give you a view over the file system, thats enough. i want file system access, but as a power tool. the 50 clicks through different folders is irrelevant to my most common 5 patterns of use. those should be a single click, or 0 clicks
- brokenmachine 11mo ago
  I tried out zoxide and fzf ctrl-r history on linux (zsh) recently. Game changers. Where is zoxide for my phone? Why is there so little innovation? Trillion dollar companies can't come up with a single new thing. Or rather, won't come up with a single new thing because they're just useless rent seekers. It's absolutely pathetic.

wkat4242 11mo ago

iOS isn't just a phone OS.

1-more 11mo ago
It is. The other OSes have different names.
- iknowstuff 11mo ago
  Only so they could pretend that iPhones and iPadas are separate platforms under DMA
  - Marsymars 11mo ago
    I generally agree that iOS/iPadOS aren't two different operating systems, but "iPadOS" predates the DMA.
    - giobox 11mo ago
      Barely... the iPadOS brand was introduced in 2019, the European Commission proposed the DMA in 2020, and even prior to this there were obvious noises being made in Europe with regards to future regulation. Maybe its coincidence, but the timing still lines up for this being a response to the threat of EU changes.
      - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        So Apple preemptively split the names because they knew exactly how the unreleased DMA was going to affect them?
        1718627440 11mo ago
        Law drafting in Europe doesn't happen behind closed doors and typically even has consultations with the companies affected by it. It wasn't unreleased only because it wasn't signed yet.

kakacik 11mo ago

One reason I'll never own an apple device, and prefer buying more expensive more open competition. Its just a red line - I own the device by law, if you bend backwards to prevent me from using it via ways that it supports by principle, your product doesn't exist for me.

vovavili 11mo ago
You are not Apple's target audience, and there is nothing wrong with that.
- brokenmachine 11mo ago
  The problem is that because fleecing dummies is so profitable, it encourages the same scummy behavior by other companies.
  - vovavili 11mo ago
    Calling an extremely broad user segment dummies is unreasonably condescending.
    - brokenmachine 11mo ago
      Did I say they were all dummies? You said there's nothing wrong with how Apple exploits their target market. Scummy behavior being normalized is what's wrong with it.

digdugdirk 11mo ago

... This is a joke... Right?

supertrope 11mo ago
"Dad, download the PDF and then email it to me." "The file disappeared. I can't find it." "Look in the download folder." "How do I get to that?"

tuetuopay 11mo ago

Despite others thinking you’re crazy, I think you are right. I remember the start of the smartphone era where many of my relatives switched to iPhone because "you know where the pictures are going and where to find them". The worst offender was my dad that had a Samsung phone running windows phone 6 (with an actual start menu) where you had to dig through folders to find jpeg files.

Gigachad 11mo ago
Desktop OSs are the worst for mixing random system files with the users own documents. Theres a better balance now where the “Files” app has your documents, downloaded stuff and similar, while system and app data is hidden.
- pxc 11mo ago
  Isn't that pretty much just Windows? That basically never occurs on Linux and it's not common on macOS, either. All the garbage I have on my work computer (a Mac) in ~/Documents is stuff that OneDrive synced over from when I used to have a Windows computer there. (If I could turn the OneDrive feature that takes over ~/Documents and ~/Downloads, I would.)
  - SchemaLoad 11mo ago
    Linux software is notorious for spewing crap all over the user's home directory. Delete everything inside your /home/name and see how well the system still works. On iOS/iPadOS nothing happens other than not having the documents you saved in there. I'm not sure there even is a good place where programs can store their internal system files without requiring root other than mixed in with the user Home.
    - pxc 11mo ago
      Yes and no. Some older conventions for dotfiles are a bit messy in that they're not necessarily contained under top-level directories like ~/.config or ~/.local, but the hijacking of non-hidden directories for contents unrelated to their purposes, like using ~/Documents for game saves, is basically unheard of (except for some ports of Windows games that retain this bad habit). > On iOS/iPadOS nothing happens other than not having the documents you saved in there. That is, frankly, a ridiculous test for the issue under discussion. Even if everything was stored under a top-level subdirectory set aside for application data in a perfectly orderly way, nuking $HOME would still break things. Besides all that, hidden directories in the root of ~ are conventional¹ places to store application config files and so on, and can't be mistaken for conventional places to store documents. On most Linux-based operating systems, the conventional place to store documents is (obviously) ~/Documents, which is created ahead of time for all users. That folder doesn't generally end up polluted with things that aren't documents. > On iOS/iPadOS nothing happens other than not having the documents you saved in there. If you delete /var/mobile or any of the things that $HOME points to in the context of some app, you'll definitely lose app settings. The app sandboxing on iOS does something nice by sort of forcing app configuration data to live within conventional directories, but none of that is captured in the "what if you delete ~" test. (The fact that $HOME isn't really directly exposed to the user sort of does; the local files you're comparing to $HOME on Linux are actually $HOME/Media on iOS.) ---- 1: https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/ch03s08.html https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/ch03s08.htm... 2: https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki//private/var/mobile https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki//private/var/mobile

standardUser 11mo ago

But what they own is files. Most users aren't interested in mutual funds, but that doesn't mean they don't want them in their retirement portfolio.