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This is one that many arguing for more building also argue against. It is popular to talk about how we can make it so that people can afford a "starter home,"

by taeric 11mo ago

This is one that many arguing for more building also argue against. It is popular to talk about how we can make it so that people can afford a "starter home," not so that people have a cheap place to live.

giantg2 11mo ago
There is no "cheap place to live" due to property taxes in most areas.
- taeric 11mo ago
  I mean... this article discusses how this used to be done? It winds up looking a lot like dormitories at schools.
  - giantg2 11mo ago
    If you set it up as a charity or something, then maybe you could. Otherwise, there's still likely $100+ in property tax per occupant per month even on a dorm sized space. That's before utilities, upkeep, paying off construction, admin costs, etc. Just look at what they charge for dorm rooms, and many of those aren't even in expensive areas.
    - taeric 11mo ago
      I'm curious where you get that it is property tax driving costs? I know it isn't free, by any means. But compare dorms in a place like Atlanta to rent. Naive google shows it saves you about 600 a month? That is rather substantial. Being colocated at the school helps save transportation costs, as well.
      - giantg2 11mo ago
        "Naive google shows it saves you about 600 a month" What does it cost? Otherwise, this is like saying I saved $100 buying a pair of shoes on sale. Property tax is a major component of most property expenses (maybe not for schools). Even dorm rooms tend to run over $500/mo. That's not cheap for most people, especially the homeless population. If we look at most mortgages, property taxes are 25%+ of a monthly payment in many cases. Even in apartments the tenants are paying this indirectly.
        rjp0008 11mo ago
        I think you're vastly over estimating property taxes. Texas is less than 2% on average assessed on home value. I'd be curious about your example of what "most mortgages" payment breakdown looks like, like year 5 in texas on a 300k house putting 5% down and a 5% interest rate. Look at principle, interest, property taxes, and avg insurance payment.
        giantg2 11mo ago
        "I think you're vastly over estimating property taxes." You're implying that this needs to be the biggest monthly cost, which I don't agree with. Eventually you will pay off your mortgage, leaving you with just property tax and (technically optional at that point) insurance. The duration of payment matters. I will end up paying more in property taxes in my life than I will in interest - 20 years below 4% vs 50+ years of paying 2+%. 2% on even a $200k house is $333/month. That's a lot for low income people. The principal and interest on $180k is about $960/mo on a 5% 30yr. So he property tax is 25% of the payment. So instead of me overestimating property tax, I feel that you are underestimating how much that money is worth to low income people.
        rjp0008 11mo ago
        You're moving the goalpost now. Here's a 200k house: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1404-36th-St-N-Birmingham-AL-35234/955212_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1404-36th-St-N-Birmingham... Here's how much they pay in property taxes ($1270): https://eringcapture.jccal.org/parceldetail/23%2000%2019%203%20025%20034.000/2025/propsearch https://eringcapture.jccal.org/parceldetail/23%2000%2019%203... 30 year loan at 4% (not feasible today) means 115k in interest paid after putting 20% down. It would take way longer than 50 years to pay more in property taxes than interest.
        giantg2 11mo ago
        Nothing moved. You gave me the 2% property tax from TX. The other person gave me the dorm in Atlanta. I gave you a real example where I will pay more in property tax than I will in interest. Property tax varies from state to state and won't be the same everywhere. I'm not sure why you're using yet another state, Alabama, for your example except to just cherry pick. But we're getting off track - $1200/yr perpetually is a lot of money for low income people.

by taeric 11mo ago

giantg2 11mo ago

There is no "cheap place to live" due to property taxes in most areas.

taeric 11mo ago
I mean... this article discusses how this used to be done? It winds up looking a lot like dormitories at schools.
- giantg2 11mo ago
  If you set it up as a charity or something, then maybe you could. Otherwise, there's still likely $100+ in property tax per occupant per month even on a dorm sized space. That's before utilities, upkeep, paying off construction, admin costs, etc. Just look at what they charge for dorm rooms, and many of those aren't even in expensive areas.
  - taeric 11mo ago
    I'm curious where you get that it is property tax driving costs? I know it isn't free, by any means. But compare dorms in a place like Atlanta to rent. Naive google shows it saves you about 600 a month? That is rather substantial. Being colocated at the school helps save transportation costs, as well.
    - giantg2 11mo ago
      "Naive google shows it saves you about 600 a month" What does it cost? Otherwise, this is like saying I saved $100 buying a pair of shoes on sale. Property tax is a major component of most property expenses (maybe not for schools). Even dorm rooms tend to run over $500/mo. That's not cheap for most people, especially the homeless population. If we look at most mortgages, property taxes are 25%+ of a monthly payment in many cases. Even in apartments the tenants are paying this indirectly.
      - rjp0008 11mo ago
        I think you're vastly over estimating property taxes. Texas is less than 2% on average assessed on home value. I'd be curious about your example of what "most mortgages" payment breakdown looks like, like year 5 in texas on a 300k house putting 5% down and a 5% interest rate. Look at principle, interest, property taxes, and avg insurance payment.
        giantg2 11mo ago
        "I think you're vastly over estimating property taxes." You're implying that this needs to be the biggest monthly cost, which I don't agree with. Eventually you will pay off your mortgage, leaving you with just property tax and (technically optional at that point) insurance. The duration of payment matters. I will end up paying more in property taxes in my life than I will in interest - 20 years below 4% vs 50+ years of paying 2+%. 2% on even a $200k house is $333/month. That's a lot for low income people. The principal and interest on $180k is about $960/mo on a 5% 30yr. So he property tax is 25% of the payment. So instead of me overestimating property tax, I feel that you are underestimating how much that money is worth to low income people.
        rjp0008 11mo ago
        You're moving the goalpost now. Here's a 200k house: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1404-36th-St-N-Birmingham-AL-35234/955212_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1404-36th-St-N-Birmingham... Here's how much they pay in property taxes ($1270): https://eringcapture.jccal.org/parceldetail/23%2000%2019%203%20025%20034.000/2025/propsearch https://eringcapture.jccal.org/parceldetail/23%2000%2019%203... 30 year loan at 4% (not feasible today) means 115k in interest paid after putting 20% down. It would take way longer than 50 years to pay more in property taxes than interest.
        giantg2 11mo ago
        Nothing moved. You gave me the 2% property tax from TX. The other person gave me the dorm in Atlanta. I gave you a real example where I will pay more in property tax than I will in interest. Property tax varies from state to state and won't be the same everywhere. I'm not sure why you're using yet another state, Alabama, for your example except to just cherry pick. But we're getting off track - $1200/yr perpetually is a lot of money for low income people.