4 ms·

isnt it more embarrasing that they believed the sun needed help to reappear? that they mistook the feelings in their head to be real, kind of how people think t

isnt it more embarrasing that they believed the sun needed help to reappear? that they mistook the feelings in their head to be real, kind of how people think they can feel or talk to a god? we love to pat ourselves on the back but never take a look at how stupid we actually are, most people most of the time. i feel regularly embarrassed at the mistakes we make

ainiriand 11mo ago
That attitude towards this issue, while natural, brings nothing positive to you. You should try to embrace our limitations, use them to play in your favor if needed, and be amazed at the diversity and curiosity of human thought. We will conquer the darkness, bit by bit.
- llamasushi 11mo ago
  That's an optimistic take, but equally valid is the take where delusions provide impetus for some pretty nasty behaviour - eg see the crusades
  - barbazoo 11mo ago
    I had to broaden my view here recently a little bit myself. Worshipping deities has been around for a long time (8000 years?) and mostly involved no crusades, they certainly aren’t universal.
    - skeezyjefferson 11mo ago
      [dead]
iterance 11mo ago
We have horoscopes and quantum computing. The existence of one is no shame on the other.
culi 11mo ago
Many of these indigenous knowledge systems are essentially memory palaces. It's a way to memorize large amounts of information and map that information on some sort of tangible metaphor. Modern western astrology is pretty divorced from the original practice(s), but the original practice actually used a sidereal clock and actually corresponded to the positions of stars. The stars being an important component for navigation, agricultural calendars, etc. Astrology served as a memory palace to store this sort of information. These metaphors are quite common across the world and over time gain many layers of knowledge. Go a little more east and you'll commonly see the 4 winds, the 4 cardinal directions, the 4 tastes, 4 [insert characteristics of medicinal properties] etc all mapped onto each other. The most embarrassing part of humanity imo is the arrogance and disregard with which people sometimes approach other cultures
- roughly 11mo ago
  Additionally, ritual serves a purpose both for individuals and within a broader society - for instance, a bloodletting during a solar eclipse emphasizes both the vulnerability of society to outside affairs (a solar eclipse is a hauntingly humbling experience even to the modern viewer) and the noble’s obligation to society (literally shedding blood to help protect their society). Similar can be seen with some rituals around hunting and gathering - “never kill the first deer/take the first herb you see” serves as a conservation act. There’s an old line - “religion is the finger that points to the moon” - to your point about religion as a memory palace, most of these practices survived not because the sun god blessed them, but because they had tangible and durable benefits to the societies that practiced them.
  - tharkun__ 11mo ago
    While I can understand how the GP's interpretation/wording isn't helpful at all and I understand it being down voted, there still is a kernel of truth in there. I think their comment is coming from a place of having a very very HN typical but maybe taken to an extreme rational and fact driven "belief" system. For example, you say that a solar eclipse is a "hauntingly humbling experience even to the modern viewer". Personally, I can understand that rationally. I can understand that many if not most people can or will feel like that. But I've witnessed multiple solar eclipses in my lifetime and while they were "cool", I had no "hauntingly humbling experience" whatsoever. It's something that happens and that we have a good scientific understanding of as to why and how it happens. End of story. I can absolutely appreciate how (think final moments of "Pillars of the Earth") great it must have been to know these things, calculate them or at least understand what's happening when it's happening and use them for "population control". Does it benefit societies? Yes, probably on a general/global level. Like how are you gonna rationally explain and get a large populace to deal with end of winter / start of growing season food scarceness? The best and easiest way is to have them believe in your religion and that fasting is something your god requires/encourages. I firmly believe that that's why many major religions include this. But as "me" in the modern world, it appalls me that someone thinks they can just tell whatever the eff they want and I'm supposed to do it coz "they speak for <$DEITY>".
dasil003 11mo ago
I value objectivity and truth as much as the next nerd, but would never set not-being-wrong as my highest value. Such a path can only lead to misery and alienation.
aj_hackman 11mo ago
God is all-powerful, eternal, exists outside of space and time, and created us for a purpose - but he's too busy to be bothered by our prayers?
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]

ainiriand 11mo ago

That attitude towards this issue, while natural, brings nothing positive to you. You should try to embrace our limitations, use them to play in your favor if needed, and be amazed at the diversity and curiosity of human thought. We will conquer the darkness, bit by bit.

llamasushi 11mo ago
That's an optimistic take, but equally valid is the take where delusions provide impetus for some pretty nasty behaviour - eg see the crusades
- barbazoo 11mo ago
  I had to broaden my view here recently a little bit myself. Worshipping deities has been around for a long time (8000 years?) and mostly involved no crusades, they certainly aren’t universal.
  - skeezyjefferson 11mo ago
    [dead]

iterance 11mo ago

We have horoscopes and quantum computing. The existence of one is no shame on the other.

culi 11mo ago

Many of these indigenous knowledge systems are essentially memory palaces. It's a way to memorize large amounts of information and map that information on some sort of tangible metaphor. Modern western astrology is pretty divorced from the original practice(s), but the original practice actually used a sidereal clock and actually corresponded to the positions of stars. The stars being an important component for navigation, agricultural calendars, etc. Astrology served as a memory palace to store this sort of information. These metaphors are quite common across the world and over time gain many layers of knowledge. Go a little more east and you'll commonly see the 4 winds, the 4 cardinal directions, the 4 tastes, 4 [insert characteristics of medicinal properties] etc all mapped onto each other. The most embarrassing part of humanity imo is the arrogance and disregard with which people sometimes approach other cultures

roughly 11mo ago
Additionally, ritual serves a purpose both for individuals and within a broader society - for instance, a bloodletting during a solar eclipse emphasizes both the vulnerability of society to outside affairs (a solar eclipse is a hauntingly humbling experience even to the modern viewer) and the noble’s obligation to society (literally shedding blood to help protect their society). Similar can be seen with some rituals around hunting and gathering - “never kill the first deer/take the first herb you see” serves as a conservation act. There’s an old line - “religion is the finger that points to the moon” - to your point about religion as a memory palace, most of these practices survived not because the sun god blessed them, but because they had tangible and durable benefits to the societies that practiced them.
- tharkun__ 11mo ago
  While I can understand how the GP's interpretation/wording isn't helpful at all and I understand it being down voted, there still is a kernel of truth in there. I think their comment is coming from a place of having a very very HN typical but maybe taken to an extreme rational and fact driven "belief" system. For example, you say that a solar eclipse is a "hauntingly humbling experience even to the modern viewer". Personally, I can understand that rationally. I can understand that many if not most people can or will feel like that. But I've witnessed multiple solar eclipses in my lifetime and while they were "cool", I had no "hauntingly humbling experience" whatsoever. It's something that happens and that we have a good scientific understanding of as to why and how it happens. End of story. I can absolutely appreciate how (think final moments of "Pillars of the Earth") great it must have been to know these things, calculate them or at least understand what's happening when it's happening and use them for "population control". Does it benefit societies? Yes, probably on a general/global level. Like how are you gonna rationally explain and get a large populace to deal with end of winter / start of growing season food scarceness? The best and easiest way is to have them believe in your religion and that fasting is something your god requires/encourages. I firmly believe that that's why many major religions include this. But as "me" in the modern world, it appalls me that someone thinks they can just tell whatever the eff they want and I'm supposed to do it coz "they speak for <$DEITY>".

dasil003 11mo ago

I value objectivity and truth as much as the next nerd, but would never set not-being-wrong as my highest value. Such a path can only lead to misery and alienation.

aj_hackman 11mo ago

God is all-powerful, eternal, exists outside of space and time, and created us for a purpose - but he's too busy to be bothered by our prayers?

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]