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I mean I could just as easily say you as an user should be mentally prepared. Matrix is developing a privacy IM, you do not really moderate that now, do you? L

I mean I could just as easily say you as an user should be mentally prepared. Matrix is developing a privacy IM, you do not really moderate that now, do you? Leave the rooms that raise your cortisol level.

jacquesm 11mo ago
> I mean I could just as easily say you as an user should be mentally prepared. Users tend to be less aware of these things than the operators of such servers (or at least, that's how it should be). > Matrix is developing a privacy IM, you do not really moderate that now, do you? No, but you can create mechanisms for the users to flag problematic accounts. > Leave the rooms that raise your cortisol level. The filth will follow the users. That's the whole game plan here: to cause grief.
- johnisgood 11mo ago
  I have been in many rooms that are completely fine; technical rooms. As for flagging problematic accounts: how would that work in a decentralized E2EE system, and do you think it cannot be abused? What would you want them to do if I flag your account a million times? Keep in mind they probably may not be able to keep up with it, nor do I expect them to. Additionally, you still should be able to use the service due to its decentralized, privacy-preserving nature, so the worst thing that may happen is getting banned from a Matrix instance, or a room.
Teever 11mo ago
Wait a minute, doesn't receiving child porn even if unintentionally like the situation above open up the receiver to legal liability? It isn't reasonable to expect users to be 'mentally prepared' to have their devices download child porn because they visited a chat room for support about the chat app they're using.
- tcfhgj 11mo ago
  I'd blame the law if it does.
- johnisgood 11mo ago
  As someone else have said, then that is an issue with the law. Imagine someone sending you a link that you open and then now you have child porn or whatever else on your hard drive, cached. Quite a shitty situation to be in. Perhaps avoid non-technical rooms or rooms in which you do not trust people.
  - gosub100 11mo ago
    And then imagine you have windows with recall enabled (that you repeatedly disabled but keeps enabling after updates), and/or cloud backup with automatic CSAM detection. You're screwed
    - johnisgood 11mo ago
      Yes, and we are screwed either way if we use Windows with Recall, or even in general. I would not consider Windows secure at all, and it seems futile to use a privacy-oriented IM on Windows, it really defeats the purpose. Imagine using Windows with Recall enabled that takes screenshots of your conversations all the time. You can be using the most effective IM for privacy but it would not help. So what is the moral of the story? We have shitty laws, and you should not use Windows. :P
  - lukan 11mo ago
    "Imagine someone sending you a link that you open and then now you have child porn or whatever else on your hard drive, cached. Quite a shitty situation to be in." I guess the correct legal approach would be to go to police with this. And the correct technical approach to keep online spaces clean, is the ability to kick, mute or ban people who violate the rules. Saying, "just be mentally prepared" sounds to me like accepting it. Well, I don't. I go somewhere else.
    - johnisgood 11mo ago
      I did not use the term "mentally prepared" because I thought it was appropriate, I was just quoting the other guy. I find it silly, too. I will not "accept" child porn or other degeneracies. > Saying, "just be mentally prepared" sounds to me like accepting it. Well, I don't. I go somewhere else. Exactly! You should be going somewhere else. Another Matrix instance, or at the very least another room, and you will be fine.

jacquesm 11mo ago

> I mean I could just as easily say you as an user should be mentally prepared. Users tend to be less aware of these things than the operators of such servers (or at least, that's how it should be). > Matrix is developing a privacy IM, you do not really moderate that now, do you? No, but you can create mechanisms for the users to flag problematic accounts. > Leave the rooms that raise your cortisol level. The filth will follow the users. That's the whole game plan here: to cause grief.

johnisgood 11mo ago
I have been in many rooms that are completely fine; technical rooms. As for flagging problematic accounts: how would that work in a decentralized E2EE system, and do you think it cannot be abused? What would you want them to do if I flag your account a million times? Keep in mind they probably may not be able to keep up with it, nor do I expect them to. Additionally, you still should be able to use the service due to its decentralized, privacy-preserving nature, so the worst thing that may happen is getting banned from a Matrix instance, or a room.

Teever 11mo ago

Wait a minute, doesn't receiving child porn even if unintentionally like the situation above open up the receiver to legal liability? It isn't reasonable to expect users to be 'mentally prepared' to have their devices download child porn because they visited a chat room for support about the chat app they're using.

tcfhgj 11mo ago
I'd blame the law if it does.
johnisgood 11mo ago
As someone else have said, then that is an issue with the law. Imagine someone sending you a link that you open and then now you have child porn or whatever else on your hard drive, cached. Quite a shitty situation to be in. Perhaps avoid non-technical rooms or rooms in which you do not trust people.
- gosub100 11mo ago
  And then imagine you have windows with recall enabled (that you repeatedly disabled but keeps enabling after updates), and/or cloud backup with automatic CSAM detection. You're screwed
  - johnisgood 11mo ago
    Yes, and we are screwed either way if we use Windows with Recall, or even in general. I would not consider Windows secure at all, and it seems futile to use a privacy-oriented IM on Windows, it really defeats the purpose. Imagine using Windows with Recall enabled that takes screenshots of your conversations all the time. You can be using the most effective IM for privacy but it would not help. So what is the moral of the story? We have shitty laws, and you should not use Windows. :P
- lukan 11mo ago
  "Imagine someone sending you a link that you open and then now you have child porn or whatever else on your hard drive, cached. Quite a shitty situation to be in." I guess the correct legal approach would be to go to police with this. And the correct technical approach to keep online spaces clean, is the ability to kick, mute or ban people who violate the rules. Saying, "just be mentally prepared" sounds to me like accepting it. Well, I don't. I go somewhere else.
  - johnisgood 11mo ago
    I did not use the term "mentally prepared" because I thought it was appropriate, I was just quoting the other guy. I find it silly, too. I will not "accept" child porn or other degeneracies. > Saying, "just be mentally prepared" sounds to me like accepting it. Well, I don't. I go somewhere else. Exactly! You should be going somewhere else. Another Matrix instance, or at the very least another room, and you will be fine.