3 ms·

But why integrate AI so deeply into Windows instead of 1. keeping Windows as small and lean as possible, and let it do the things an operating system is for,

But why integrate AI so deeply into Windows instead of 1. keeping Windows as small and lean as possible, and let it do the things an operating system is for, 2. offering some AI applications that can be installed optionally by the users who want them, i.e. turn their AI applications into external software that can be installed/used or not, like Microsoft Office.

nik282000 1y ago
Windows is not a general purpose operating system. It's a platform for monetizing businesses via licensing and cloud services, and a platform for monetizing private users by way of advertising and data mining. If they were ever to produce a Windows PowerUser edition, with absolutely no bloat, it would have to be priced like a CAD suite.
- CamperBob2 1y ago
  Fine, price it like a CAD suite, then. My problem with Microsoft is that they won't sell an un-enshittified version of Windows for any price (LTSC notwithstanding; it's not licensable for general use.) Owning our computing experience is that important to them.
- nar001 1y ago
  Isn't that what Windows 11 LTSC is though? At least a lot of it removed?
tavavex 1y ago
They do neither of those things because, unlike you, they don't care about improving the user experience. They care about making money through any possible means. 1. Making the system lean means that you'd have to exclude all the ads, all the free tracking you can do to extract more money, all tie-ins with additional Microsoft services you could've done. Getting paid for the product key is just one step of many in the process of wringing their stack for every last droplet of money they can provide. If anything, it's beneficial to Microsoft to make Windows into a singular giant blob that amalgamates every Microsoft offering into one and pushes them as hard as possible. What are those mainstream customers going to do, not use Windows? Though of course, when using a lean system is a requirement for some business customers, MS will also offer a separate minimal version that can only be obtained through business licenses, just to avoid missing out on those few percent of the market. 2. Why make AI features opt-in? That would require your AI offerings to be alluring enough to motivate users to install the AI features on their own, and how many people will realistically want to install Copilot into Notepad or any other psychotic integrations MS came up with? No, you NEED for your investment to have returns, you need AI to succeed, so what you do is put it in the next update, and then progressively keep punching it down customers' throats enough (via pop-ups, colorful buttons, hardware Copilot keys, ads, integrating it into every piece of software - soon enough they'll probably start substituting regular features with AI ones) until it starts looking like the investment is paying off after all and the investors are happy.
- aleph_minus_one 1y ago
  > No, you NEED for your investment to have returns, you need AI to succeed If you need AI to succeeed, you better make sure that the users will love the experience, instead of forcing a bad experience upon them.
  - terminalbraid 1y ago
    Until you get yourself into a sunk cost fallacy and don't understand a sunk cost fallacy but only quarterly number go up.
chemotaxis 1y ago
> 1. keeping Windows as small and lean as possible, and let it do the things an operating system is for, The least cynical answer is that for several decades, Microsoft had a monopoly on operating systems, but they no longer do. Many people lead online lives on their phones instead of desktop computers. People in creative professions use Macs. Servers run Linux. Gamers buy consoles. Schools use Chromebooks. So they feel it's a dead-end to provide an OS that just works and doesn't get in the way. They need an edge, and they think the answer is an OS you talk to, that helps you with homework, that you build a relationship with. They want "Samantha" from Her, I guess. I don't think this is going to work with the tech we have today, but almost everyone in the AI space is fudging it the same way - "ship it today, make it good tomorrow".
egorfine 1y ago
Because that will not please shareholders while shoving AI down our throats with no opt out most definitely will.
rsynnott 1y ago
Because that won’t make number go up.
parliament32 1y ago
Because these goals are inherently at odds with for-profit software development. If you're a business who produces software, you must not only 1) charge money, but also 2) plan to charge more money. Windows usage is broad enough that the "new users" revenue stream is pretty dry, but it's also hard to say "we increased the price to $X while making windows smaller".. so they will endlessly pump in new "features" and bloat. I recommend using an operating system that isn't driven by a thirst for revenue.

nik282000 1y ago

Windows is not a general purpose operating system. It's a platform for monetizing businesses via licensing and cloud services, and a platform for monetizing private users by way of advertising and data mining. If they were ever to produce a Windows PowerUser edition, with absolutely no bloat, it would have to be priced like a CAD suite.

CamperBob2 1y ago
Fine, price it like a CAD suite, then. My problem with Microsoft is that they won't sell an un-enshittified version of Windows for any price (LTSC notwithstanding; it's not licensable for general use.) Owning our computing experience is that important to them.
nar001 1y ago
Isn't that what Windows 11 LTSC is though? At least a lot of it removed?

tavavex 1y ago

They do neither of those things because, unlike you, they don't care about improving the user experience. They care about making money through any possible means. 1. Making the system lean means that you'd have to exclude all the ads, all the free tracking you can do to extract more money, all tie-ins with additional Microsoft services you could've done. Getting paid for the product key is just one step of many in the process of wringing their stack for every last droplet of money they can provide. If anything, it's beneficial to Microsoft to make Windows into a singular giant blob that amalgamates every Microsoft offering into one and pushes them as hard as possible. What are those mainstream customers going to do, not use Windows? Though of course, when using a lean system is a requirement for some business customers, MS will also offer a separate minimal version that can only be obtained through business licenses, just to avoid missing out on those few percent of the market. 2. Why make AI features opt-in? That would require your AI offerings to be alluring enough to motivate users to install the AI features on their own, and how many people will realistically want to install Copilot into Notepad or any other psychotic integrations MS came up with? No, you NEED for your investment to have returns, you need AI to succeed, so what you do is put it in the next update, and then progressively keep punching it down customers' throats enough (via pop-ups, colorful buttons, hardware Copilot keys, ads, integrating it into every piece of software - soon enough they'll probably start substituting regular features with AI ones) until it starts looking like the investment is paying off after all and the investors are happy.

aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> No, you NEED for your investment to have returns, you need AI to succeed If you need AI to succeeed, you better make sure that the users will love the experience, instead of forcing a bad experience upon them.
- terminalbraid 1y ago
  Until you get yourself into a sunk cost fallacy and don't understand a sunk cost fallacy but only quarterly number go up.

chemotaxis 1y ago

> 1. keeping Windows as small and lean as possible, and let it do the things an operating system is for, The least cynical answer is that for several decades, Microsoft had a monopoly on operating systems, but they no longer do. Many people lead online lives on their phones instead of desktop computers. People in creative professions use Macs. Servers run Linux. Gamers buy consoles. Schools use Chromebooks. So they feel it's a dead-end to provide an OS that just works and doesn't get in the way. They need an edge, and they think the answer is an OS you talk to, that helps you with homework, that you build a relationship with. They want "Samantha" from Her, I guess. I don't think this is going to work with the tech we have today, but almost everyone in the AI space is fudging it the same way - "ship it today, make it good tomorrow".

egorfine 1y ago

Because that will not please shareholders while shoving AI down our throats with no opt out most definitely will.

rsynnott 1y ago

Because that won’t make number go up.

parliament32 1y ago

Because these goals are inherently at odds with for-profit software development. If you're a business who produces software, you must not only 1) charge money, but also 2) plan to charge more money. Windows usage is broad enough that the "new users" revenue stream is pretty dry, but it's also hard to say "we increased the price to $X while making windows smaller".. so they will endlessly pump in new "features" and bloat. I recommend using an operating system that isn't driven by a thirst for revenue.