5 ms·

Having coded multiple such buttons in the past, I'd like to ask to consider that the person doing the coding is barely the person making the decision. It's hard

Having coded multiple such buttons in the past, I'd like to ask to consider that the person doing the coding is barely the person making the decision. It's hard to reject such a request when your lifelihood depends on the job

OkayPhysicist 11mo ago
Which is why we need professional licensure: You get to tell your boss "If I tell you to go fuck yourself, then I risk this job. If I implement your feature, I risk losing every future job by losing my license. And everybody you can hire to do this will tell you the same thing".
- abigail95 11mo ago
  I don't want to live in your hellscape where my government tells me I can't program a website without a license. Grow up and tell someone you won't implement a feature because you don't like it. I do it all the time - "that's a bad idea, I'm not doing that". I still manage to eat, it's not either/or, you have agency, you can refuse without resorting to regulation saying you must.
  - zelphirkalt 11mo ago
    Maybe you could still program a website. But you might not be able to do it professionally. But yes, more people should tell other people that they won't do that.
    - TylerE 11mo ago
      Should contributing code to open source software require professional licensure?
      - zelphirkalt 11mo ago
        As far as I know most (all?) open source and free software licenses include terms, that explicitly states, that there is no warranty. So I think maybe a license there wouldn't be required. It is an interesting question though.
        TylerE 11mo ago
        But many people are paid by their companies to work on OSS. Most commercial software doesn’t have a warranty either.
        zelphirkalt 11mo ago
        In that case I would say, since they are getting paid for their work by the company, they are in a different position than someone developing FOSS on their own private time. I think a lot of commercial software that is not open source or free software, doesn't have licenses in the same sense. They are proprietary and they might have an EULA, that prohibits you from reverse engineering or something like that, or that declares the no warranty. But not licenses like for example GPL or MIT license. Such a license would be useless for proprietary software projects, because the user isn't supposed to ever get the code.
  - s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
    Lucky you. In my experience it ends up with talks to HR, where they will explain that "you are being difficult to work with" and "things are going to have to change" or "we are going to have to look for alternative avenues"
zelphirkalt 11mo ago
It might be hard in some places, with especially toxic higher ups. A good start is pointing out the law a few times. If that doesn't get them to stop, what you can do is ask them to give you a signed piece of paper, where it says, that against your objection and warning about this being illegal, they want you to still do that. Usually at that point they will find someone else, or stop trying to do it.
- s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
  I agree with everything you say, except > Usually at that point they will find someone else is not really something a lot of people can afford to risk
  - zelphirkalt 11mo ago
    This is why am glad to live in a country with comparatively good employee protections. In other countries, where people can be fired at will, this might be more problematic. But at least in this country, it would be a very clear cut case, if your employer asks you to do something illegal, that they will not be able to legally fire you. Of course you might have to go to court to get your right.

OkayPhysicist 11mo ago

Which is why we need professional licensure: You get to tell your boss "If I tell you to go fuck yourself, then I risk this job. If I implement your feature, I risk losing every future job by losing my license. And everybody you can hire to do this will tell you the same thing".

abigail95 11mo ago
I don't want to live in your hellscape where my government tells me I can't program a website without a license. Grow up and tell someone you won't implement a feature because you don't like it. I do it all the time - "that's a bad idea, I'm not doing that". I still manage to eat, it's not either/or, you have agency, you can refuse without resorting to regulation saying you must.
- zelphirkalt 11mo ago
  Maybe you could still program a website. But you might not be able to do it professionally. But yes, more people should tell other people that they won't do that.
  - TylerE 11mo ago
    Should contributing code to open source software require professional licensure?
    - zelphirkalt 11mo ago
      As far as I know most (all?) open source and free software licenses include terms, that explicitly states, that there is no warranty. So I think maybe a license there wouldn't be required. It is an interesting question though.
      - TylerE 11mo ago
        But many people are paid by their companies to work on OSS. Most commercial software doesn’t have a warranty either.
        zelphirkalt 11mo ago
        In that case I would say, since they are getting paid for their work by the company, they are in a different position than someone developing FOSS on their own private time. I think a lot of commercial software that is not open source or free software, doesn't have licenses in the same sense. They are proprietary and they might have an EULA, that prohibits you from reverse engineering or something like that, or that declares the no warranty. But not licenses like for example GPL or MIT license. Such a license would be useless for proprietary software projects, because the user isn't supposed to ever get the code.
- s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
  Lucky you. In my experience it ends up with talks to HR, where they will explain that "you are being difficult to work with" and "things are going to have to change" or "we are going to have to look for alternative avenues"

zelphirkalt 11mo ago

It might be hard in some places, with especially toxic higher ups. A good start is pointing out the law a few times. If that doesn't get them to stop, what you can do is ask them to give you a signed piece of paper, where it says, that against your objection and warning about this being illegal, they want you to still do that. Usually at that point they will find someone else, or stop trying to do it.

s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
I agree with everything you say, except > Usually at that point they will find someone else is not really something a lot of people can afford to risk
- zelphirkalt 11mo ago
  This is why am glad to live in a country with comparatively good employee protections. In other countries, where people can be fired at will, this might be more problematic. But at least in this country, it would be a very clear cut case, if your employer asks you to do something illegal, that they will not be able to legally fire you. Of course you might have to go to court to get your right.