3 ms·

What were they doing with user data?

cm2012 1y ago
Number one use case is sending anonymized and hashed data back to the ad platform to trigger conversion events. Essentially all modern advertising is done algorithmically. The platform takes conversion events (a typical event is "someone fills out a form"), that signal is sent to the platforms, and the platforms use it to serve your ad to other people who may be interested. GDPR as it is means you need opt-in to do this, so it greatly reduces the effectiveness of online ad targeting. So in practice, say you make a new cool B2B tool for, say, plumbers. It automates your plumbing business and makes plumbers more money. In the US, you can make a Meta ad campaign with broad targeting and Meta will use algorithmic magic and be able to just find plumbers for you to show your ad to. In the EU, this doesn't work as well, so its harder to find plumbers to show your ads to. Less plumbers get to use your product as a result. So its just one reason it's hard to get your EU based Plumbing SaaS off the ground.
- Neikius 1y ago
  Biggest issue with this is the modern web ads don't even work. You get ads for fridge AFTER you bought one since they now know you browsed them. What works is content based advertising - so advertise a power drill on a woodworking hobbyist site. No tracking required there. Conversion can be obtained when user clicks a link via redirect. Like in the good ol times. But this modern approach that massively invades privacy has been sold to businesses and now they require it even though it is probably ineffectual.
  - debazel 1y ago
    > What works is content based advertising - so advertise a power drill on a woodworking hobbyist site. No tracking required there. Conversion can be obtained when user clicks a link via redirect. Like in the good ol times. This still requires tracking to follow the user through the whole flow, which is required unless you want to be defrauded with fake users at the very least, but also very important to track the actual performance of each ad source.
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      Why do things that are important to the advertiser trump what's important to the user? I don't care how hard it is for you to track the performance of your ad sources, I just want you to stop tracking me.
      - debazel 1y ago
        Because without ads we're not profitable so there would be no service? You can't just buy a domain, put your service out there, and expect it to gain traction. Advertising that you actually exist is essential for any service, but especially so for smaller businesses and startups.
    - Neikius 11mo ago
      I guess you have a point there. I am trying to imagine a scenario where you just track the actual conversions (sales) and the only datapoint is where your customer originated from, something akin to podcasts/youtube giving affiliate links. That could work right? Or maybe I am missing something. If I am not it feels like the current model only benefits the middle man and is detrimental to everybody else.
  - cm2012 1y ago
    It does work, I have seen enormous and well designed tests to show it.
- mihaaly 1y ago
  They are strangled by rules in using personal data on algorithmic advertismenet? GOOD!
- saubeidl 1y ago
  Essentially all modern advertising is evil.
- Telaneo 1y ago
  > GDPR as it is means you need opt-in to do this, so it greatly reduces the effectiveness of online ad targeting. Good! I don't want ads to be a thing in the first place. It's a good thing that industry is being strangled by regulation.
debazel 1y ago
Most are running ads and needs to track the performance of their ad spend I believe, at least that what we do. We don't care at all about tracking anything other than x amount of users came from x ad source with some basic device info like mobile/desktop/etc. We tried to get rid of any tracking banners but have been unable to do so.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  How do I stop you from tracking this information about me?
  - naIak 1y ago
    Do not consent when asked or, better yet, do not use websites that implement these techniques.
- hdgvhicv 1y ago
  So can’t abuse people’s data without their consent is being strangled? Is that like I’m strangled with my start up of “cheapdvds.com” because I can’t sell someone else’s data?
  - nozzlegear 1y ago
    That's an egregiously poor faith interpretation of what they said.
  - Auracle 1y ago
    You have a funny definition of the word “abuse,” and “sell.” “25% of our users that arrived from the newest ad came from Facebook and 85% of those were mobile users.” So abusive. So much selling.
    - rcMgD2BwE72F 1y ago
      And when someone visits your website, you don't tell anyone about their visit, right? RIGHT?!
sojsurf 1y ago
Probably using off-the-shelf analytics because rolling your own analytics takes time away from solving the central problems your users are paying you for. No one is _using_ the data. It's often not even really PII except that GDPR's net is incredibly broad. I have not seen GDPR reduce the amount of data people track. It's just resulted in piles of cash being burned on lawyers' advice to make sure the company has as little GDPR-related liability as possible. Subprocessor agreements, updated Terms and Conditions, etc. Some good has come out of it, such as less backup retention, and some basic data breach plans, but a lot of it is theater.

cm2012 1y ago

Number one use case is sending anonymized and hashed data back to the ad platform to trigger conversion events. Essentially all modern advertising is done algorithmically. The platform takes conversion events (a typical event is "someone fills out a form"), that signal is sent to the platforms, and the platforms use it to serve your ad to other people who may be interested. GDPR as it is means you need opt-in to do this, so it greatly reduces the effectiveness of online ad targeting. So in practice, say you make a new cool B2B tool for, say, plumbers. It automates your plumbing business and makes plumbers more money. In the US, you can make a Meta ad campaign with broad targeting and Meta will use algorithmic magic and be able to just find plumbers for you to show your ad to. In the EU, this doesn't work as well, so its harder to find plumbers to show your ads to. Less plumbers get to use your product as a result. So its just one reason it's hard to get your EU based Plumbing SaaS off the ground.

Neikius 1y ago
Biggest issue with this is the modern web ads don't even work. You get ads for fridge AFTER you bought one since they now know you browsed them. What works is content based advertising - so advertise a power drill on a woodworking hobbyist site. No tracking required there. Conversion can be obtained when user clicks a link via redirect. Like in the good ol times. But this modern approach that massively invades privacy has been sold to businesses and now they require it even though it is probably ineffectual.
- debazel 1y ago
  > What works is content based advertising - so advertise a power drill on a woodworking hobbyist site. No tracking required there. Conversion can be obtained when user clicks a link via redirect. Like in the good ol times. This still requires tracking to follow the user through the whole flow, which is required unless you want to be defrauded with fake users at the very least, but also very important to track the actual performance of each ad source.
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    Why do things that are important to the advertiser trump what's important to the user? I don't care how hard it is for you to track the performance of your ad sources, I just want you to stop tracking me.
    - debazel 1y ago
      Because without ads we're not profitable so there would be no service? You can't just buy a domain, put your service out there, and expect it to gain traction. Advertising that you actually exist is essential for any service, but especially so for smaller businesses and startups.
  - Neikius 11mo ago
    I guess you have a point there. I am trying to imagine a scenario where you just track the actual conversions (sales) and the only datapoint is where your customer originated from, something akin to podcasts/youtube giving affiliate links. That could work right? Or maybe I am missing something. If I am not it feels like the current model only benefits the middle man and is detrimental to everybody else.
- cm2012 1y ago
  It does work, I have seen enormous and well designed tests to show it.
mihaaly 1y ago
They are strangled by rules in using personal data on algorithmic advertismenet? GOOD!
saubeidl 1y ago
Essentially all modern advertising is evil.
Telaneo 1y ago
> GDPR as it is means you need opt-in to do this, so it greatly reduces the effectiveness of online ad targeting. Good! I don't want ads to be a thing in the first place. It's a good thing that industry is being strangled by regulation.

debazel 1y ago

Most are running ads and needs to track the performance of their ad spend I believe, at least that what we do. We don't care at all about tracking anything other than x amount of users came from x ad source with some basic device info like mobile/desktop/etc. We tried to get rid of any tracking banners but have been unable to do so.

AlexandrB 1y ago
How do I stop you from tracking this information about me?
- naIak 1y ago
  Do not consent when asked or, better yet, do not use websites that implement these techniques.
hdgvhicv 1y ago
So can’t abuse people’s data without their consent is being strangled? Is that like I’m strangled with my start up of “cheapdvds.com” because I can’t sell someone else’s data?
- nozzlegear 1y ago
  That's an egregiously poor faith interpretation of what they said.
- Auracle 1y ago
  You have a funny definition of the word “abuse,” and “sell.” “25% of our users that arrived from the newest ad came from Facebook and 85% of those were mobile users.” So abusive. So much selling.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 1y ago
    And when someone visits your website, you don't tell anyone about their visit, right? RIGHT?!

sojsurf 1y ago

Probably using off-the-shelf analytics because rolling your own analytics takes time away from solving the central problems your users are paying you for. No one is _using_ the data. It's often not even really PII except that GDPR's net is incredibly broad. I have not seen GDPR reduce the amount of data people track. It's just resulted in piles of cash being burned on lawyers' advice to make sure the company has as little GDPR-related liability as possible. Subprocessor agreements, updated Terms and Conditions, etc. Some good has come out of it, such as less backup retention, and some basic data breach plans, but a lot of it is theater.