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> So the context of their comment is not some specific nuanced example. They made a blanket statement. That is their opinion, I disagree with it, but I don't t

> So the context of their comment is not some specific nuanced example. They made a blanket statement. That is their opinion, I disagree with it, but I don't think it's an insulting or invalid opinion to have. There are codebases that ban nulls in other languages too. > They are factually mistaken in their characterization of the use of unwrap()/expect() in general. It's an opinion about a stylistic choice. I don't see what fact there is here that could be mistaken.

burntsushi 11mo ago
I'm finding this exchange frustrating, and now we're going in circles. I'll say this one last time in as clear language as I can. They said this: > unwrap(), expect(), bad math, etc. - this is all caused by lazy Rust developers or Rust developers not utilizing the language's design features. The factually incorrect part of this is the statement that use of `unwrap()`, `expect()` and so on is caused by X or Y, where X is "lazy Rust developers" and Y is "Rust developers not utilizing the language's design features." But there are, factually, other causes than X or Y for use of `unwrap()`, `expect()` and so on. So stating that it is all caused by X or Y is factually incorrect. Moreover, X is 100% insulting when applied to any one specific individual. Y can be insulting when applied to any one specific individual. Now this: > We shouldn't be using unwrap() or expect() at all. That's an opinion. It isn't factually incorrect. And it isn't insulting.
- underdeserver 11mo ago
  I'm sorry I'm frustrating you. It was not my intention. For what it's worth, I use ripgrep every day, and it's made my life appreciably better. (Same goes for Astral products.) Thank you for that, and I wish your day improves. > unwrap(), expect(), bad math, etc. - this is all caused by lazy Rust developers or Rust developers not utilizing the language's design features I just read that line as shorthand for large outages caused by misuse of unwrap(), expect(), bad math etc. - all caused by... That's also an opinion, by my reading. I assumed we were talking specifically about misuses, not all uses of unwrap(), or all bad bugs. Anyway, I think we're ultimately saying the same thing. It's ironic in its own way.

burntsushi 11mo ago

I'm finding this exchange frustrating, and now we're going in circles. I'll say this one last time in as clear language as I can. They said this: > unwrap(), expect(), bad math, etc. - this is all caused by lazy Rust developers or Rust developers not utilizing the language's design features. The factually incorrect part of this is the statement that use of `unwrap()`, `expect()` and so on is caused by X or Y, where X is "lazy Rust developers" and Y is "Rust developers not utilizing the language's design features." But there are, factually, other causes than X or Y for use of `unwrap()`, `expect()` and so on. So stating that it is all caused by X or Y is factually incorrect. Moreover, X is 100% insulting when applied to any one specific individual. Y can be insulting when applied to any one specific individual. Now this: > We shouldn't be using unwrap() or expect() at all. That's an opinion. It isn't factually incorrect. And it isn't insulting.

underdeserver 11mo ago
I'm sorry I'm frustrating you. It was not my intention. For what it's worth, I use ripgrep every day, and it's made my life appreciably better. (Same goes for Astral products.) Thank you for that, and I wish your day improves. > unwrap(), expect(), bad math, etc. - this is all caused by lazy Rust developers or Rust developers not utilizing the language's design features I just read that line as shorthand for large outages caused by misuse of unwrap(), expect(), bad math etc. - all caused by... That's also an opinion, by my reading. I assumed we were talking specifically about misuses, not all uses of unwrap(), or all bad bugs. Anyway, I think we're ultimately saying the same thing. It's ironic in its own way.