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Python and Ruby killed Perl. Before Perl, there was no scripting language that could do systems tasks except maybe shell and tcl, but that's shell is an extrem

Python and Ruby killed Perl. Before Perl, there was no scripting language that could do systems tasks except maybe shell and tcl, but that's shell is an extremely unpleasant programming experience and the performance is horrid, and tcl's string-based nature is just too weird. Perl gives you something more like a real programming language and can do shell-like tasks and systems tasks very nicely. Compared to what came before, it is amazing. But then Ruby and Python came along and checked the "real programming language" box even more firmly than Perl while retaining the shell/systems angle. Ruby and Python were better than Perl along exactly the same axis as the one on which Perl was better than Tcl and shell.

daneel_w 11mo ago
> "Perl gives you something more like a real programming language ..." It is a real general-purpose programming language, not a "scripting" language. Did you ever have a look at it?
- Kye 11mo ago
  Good luck getting any two people to agree on a sharp line between programming language and scripting language. Perl seems to swap sides depending on the year people are arguing about it.
  - daneel_w 11mo ago
    In my experience those can't discern what's what are usually the ones who mainly did a bit of dabbling in either.
    - spankalee 11mo ago
      Assuming you've done more than dabbling, what's specifically the difference to you then?
- spankalee 11mo ago
  That's a difference without a distinction
- pizlonator 11mo ago
  I’ve shipped Perl code so yeah, I have
- pengaru 11mo ago
  For many people especially old timer sysadmins, anything interpreted at runtime is a script. TBH, prior to perl6, perl was such a horrid inconsistent mess, it reeked of shell.
- rs186 11mo ago
  BASIC and Pascal are real general-purpose programming languages as well, but I don't know anyone who uses them for anything serious.
  - bitwize 11mo ago
    Entire enterprises ran/still run on Business BASIC and Delphi code. Billion-dollar fortunes have been made on such code. Those languages are used for serious things all the time.
    - rs186 11mo ago
      * for new code
- ianburrell 11mo ago
  In previous life, worked on large object-oriented Perl. There was a difference between good Perl and the Perl in messy scripts. Good Perl was nice to work in but required discipline to keep organized. I wonder if there was an earlier point of Perl's demise. Perl 5 came out with flexible object-oriented features, but it took years for packages like Moose to come out and make it nice and usable.
  - SmirkingRevenge 11mo ago
    I always thought one of the best and worst things about Perl was the fact that you could build something like Moose with it. But the bad side was that by the time someone was clever enough to invent Moose, all sorts of other bespoke object systems had been invented and used in the meantime, and your CPAN dependencies used every single one of them.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
le-mark 11mo ago
> and tcl's string-based nature is just too weird. TCL had the ability dynamically load and call into .so’s which was really powerful. Those who knew, knew.
- pizlonator 11mo ago
  Yeah tcl is awesome. It's both awesome and weird. Some people use it effectively to this day. Most either have no idea about it, or know about it but can't get into the mindset (like me).
  - fithisux 11mo ago
    Common Lisp for the masses
citrin_ru 11mo ago
IMHO Python killed both Perl and Ruby. While Ruby is more alive than Perl it's nowhere near as popular as Python. I like Perl and used it professionally for year and vaguely remember probably around 2010x relatively massive Python evangelism (lots of articles, conferences, lots of messages from Python adepts on forums e.t.c). One of talking points (no longer needed nowadays) was that Python is backed (sponsored) by Google so Python will be successful and you should not worry about it's future and also if you will choose Python you will be successful (as Google is).
- lacker 11mo ago
  I think Ruby has declined because Rails was its selling point, but Rails was optimized for the world of HTML templates. Once you're writing JavaScript-heavy frontends and mobile apps, Rails isn't giving you much that you can't get from Python or server-side JS.
- pizlonator 11mo ago
  > IMHO Python killed both Perl and Ruby. I think you're right. (I say that as someone who still very much loves to program in Ruby.)
- kamaal 11mo ago
  >>While Ruby is more alive than Perl it's nowhere near as popular as Python. Haven't seen anybody start a Ruby project in more than a decade. Whereas Perl still has held its fort i.e Automation/Glue work on Unix systems.
- slyall 11mo ago
  A few people started using Ruby for command line tools[1] but the community was very focuses around rails. Also Ruby isn't usually part of the standard OS install. So Ruby stayed stuck in it's Rails niche. [1] Some listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ruby_software_and_tools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ruby_software_and_tool... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_software_programmed_in_Ruby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_software_program...
  - 11mo ago

daneel_w 11mo ago

> "Perl gives you something more like a real programming language ..." It is a real general-purpose programming language, not a "scripting" language. Did you ever have a look at it?

Kye 11mo ago
Good luck getting any two people to agree on a sharp line between programming language and scripting language. Perl seems to swap sides depending on the year people are arguing about it.
- daneel_w 11mo ago
  In my experience those can't discern what's what are usually the ones who mainly did a bit of dabbling in either.
  - spankalee 11mo ago
    Assuming you've done more than dabbling, what's specifically the difference to you then?
spankalee 11mo ago
That's a difference without a distinction
pizlonator 11mo ago
I’ve shipped Perl code so yeah, I have
pengaru 11mo ago
For many people especially old timer sysadmins, anything interpreted at runtime is a script. TBH, prior to perl6, perl was such a horrid inconsistent mess, it reeked of shell.
rs186 11mo ago
BASIC and Pascal are real general-purpose programming languages as well, but I don't know anyone who uses them for anything serious.
- bitwize 11mo ago
  Entire enterprises ran/still run on Business BASIC and Delphi code. Billion-dollar fortunes have been made on such code. Those languages are used for serious things all the time.
  - rs186 11mo ago
    * for new code
ianburrell 11mo ago
In previous life, worked on large object-oriented Perl. There was a difference between good Perl and the Perl in messy scripts. Good Perl was nice to work in but required discipline to keep organized. I wonder if there was an earlier point of Perl's demise. Perl 5 came out with flexible object-oriented features, but it took years for packages like Moose to come out and make it nice and usable.
- SmirkingRevenge 11mo ago
  I always thought one of the best and worst things about Perl was the fact that you could build something like Moose with it. But the bad side was that by the time someone was clever enough to invent Moose, all sorts of other bespoke object systems had been invented and used in the meantime, and your CPAN dependencies used every single one of them.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

le-mark 11mo ago

> and tcl's string-based nature is just too weird. TCL had the ability dynamically load and call into .so’s which was really powerful. Those who knew, knew.

pizlonator 11mo ago
Yeah tcl is awesome. It's both awesome and weird. Some people use it effectively to this day. Most either have no idea about it, or know about it but can't get into the mindset (like me).
- fithisux 11mo ago
  Common Lisp for the masses

citrin_ru 11mo ago

IMHO Python killed both Perl and Ruby. While Ruby is more alive than Perl it's nowhere near as popular as Python. I like Perl and used it professionally for year and vaguely remember probably around 2010x relatively massive Python evangelism (lots of articles, conferences, lots of messages from Python adepts on forums e.t.c). One of talking points (no longer needed nowadays) was that Python is backed (sponsored) by Google so Python will be successful and you should not worry about it's future and also if you will choose Python you will be successful (as Google is).

lacker 11mo ago
I think Ruby has declined because Rails was its selling point, but Rails was optimized for the world of HTML templates. Once you're writing JavaScript-heavy frontends and mobile apps, Rails isn't giving you much that you can't get from Python or server-side JS.
pizlonator 11mo ago
> IMHO Python killed both Perl and Ruby. I think you're right. (I say that as someone who still very much loves to program in Ruby.)
kamaal 11mo ago
>>While Ruby is more alive than Perl it's nowhere near as popular as Python. Haven't seen anybody start a Ruby project in more than a decade. Whereas Perl still has held its fort i.e Automation/Glue work on Unix systems.
slyall 11mo ago
A few people started using Ruby for command line tools[1] but the community was very focuses around rails. Also Ruby isn't usually part of the standard OS install. So Ruby stayed stuck in it's Rails niche. [1] Some listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ruby_software_and_tools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ruby_software_and_tool... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_software_programmed_in_Ruby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_software_program...
- 11mo ago