3 ms·

I just recently happened to attend a community meeting which took place in a room of a trans-centric housing project. Several of the houses residents also atte

by lynx97 11mo ago

I just recently happened to attend a community meeting which took place in a room of a trans-centric housing project. Several of the houses residents also attended. I was schocked to witness a casual chat escalating to a point where several people agreed that they should forcefully storm the parliament building of the capital, if politicians can not be made to fullfil their wishes. So there you have your Jan6 story, from the other side. I decided to distance myself from these people. I know, its just an anecdote, and therefore, according to HN, not worth a dime. But it showed to me that there is really no difference between the sides. If frustrated enough, they end up going for, or at least playing with the thought of, violence. Remember RAF? But I digress...

unethical_ban 11mo ago
I've thought about J6 a lot, and what bothers me isn't so much the violence, but the lies and pathetic worldview that drove it. The idea that violence is necessary if an election is stolen - if political forces actually manipulated the results of the democratic process - is not absurd to me, and is not inherently immoral. What made J6 wrong was not that it was violent, but that it was based on the obvious lies of a narcissistic compulsive gaslighter with no evidence, so they could further destroy the government and take rights away from people. I guess my point is, values matter. --- edit, since I hit the "dang" limit on discussing things with people: Violence has always been part of societies, when rights are taken away violently by the ruling class or when nonviolent protest fails to secure fundamental rights. Violence because an election was lost isn't just. Violence because the government is committing genocide is just. Violence because a stupid man told me to go attack the capitol because, against all evidence, he says the election was rigged is wrong. Violence because there is massive evidence of a rigged election (Tanzania, Russia) is not wrong. Of course, all of this is a distraction from thrust of your argument "MAGA and Trans people are equal because they both have flags and I heard someone say something violent once". MAGA is more violent, anti-democratic and oppressive than anything you can ever say about any left-wing identity political movement, period. --- edit2: If one is willing to ignore the history of the world and the conditions I set for when violence seems just (while we diverge from the core discussion around the false equivalence between a gender rights movement and an anti-democracy movement) then I agree, we don't have a lot to talk through.
- lynx97 11mo ago
  If you are willing to support--or at least not be bothered by--violence in a democratic process, I guess we can not find any common ground to talk about.
  - unethical_ban 11mo ago
    Some commentary added in my prior comment due to HN throttling. In short, equating a minority group that has a flag and some banter spoken on private, to a massive ongoing movement-in-power in the US to literally destroy the federal government and erode civil liberties... Is a wild take.

by lynx97 11mo ago

unethical_ban 11mo ago

I've thought about J6 a lot, and what bothers me isn't so much the violence, but the lies and pathetic worldview that drove it. The idea that violence is necessary if an election is stolen - if political forces actually manipulated the results of the democratic process - is not absurd to me, and is not inherently immoral. What made J6 wrong was not that it was violent, but that it was based on the obvious lies of a narcissistic compulsive gaslighter with no evidence, so they could further destroy the government and take rights away from people. I guess my point is, values matter. --- edit, since I hit the "dang" limit on discussing things with people: Violence has always been part of societies, when rights are taken away violently by the ruling class or when nonviolent protest fails to secure fundamental rights. Violence because an election was lost isn't just. Violence because the government is committing genocide is just. Violence because a stupid man told me to go attack the capitol because, against all evidence, he says the election was rigged is wrong. Violence because there is massive evidence of a rigged election (Tanzania, Russia) is not wrong. Of course, all of this is a distraction from thrust of your argument "MAGA and Trans people are equal because they both have flags and I heard someone say something violent once". MAGA is more violent, anti-democratic and oppressive than anything you can ever say about any left-wing identity political movement, period. --- edit2: If one is willing to ignore the history of the world and the conditions I set for when violence seems just (while we diverge from the core discussion around the false equivalence between a gender rights movement and an anti-democracy movement) then I agree, we don't have a lot to talk through.

lynx97 11mo ago
If you are willing to support--or at least not be bothered by--violence in a democratic process, I guess we can not find any common ground to talk about.
- unethical_ban 11mo ago
  Some commentary added in my prior comment due to HN throttling. In short, equating a minority group that has a flag and some banter spoken on private, to a massive ongoing movement-in-power in the US to literally destroy the federal government and erode civil liberties... Is a wild take.