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"Metrics like these are meaningless when the working class' living condition keeps deteriorating." 1) what is working class? 2) what proof do you have that its

by sershe 11mo ago

"Metrics like these are meaningless when the working class' living condition keeps deteriorating." 1) what is working class? 2) what proof do you have that its "living condition keeps deteriorating"? By all metrics - including disposable income after housing etc - its living conditions keep improving. And problems like housing are caused by parts of the "current system" that are the most non capitalist - zoning and other local regulation, in particular, the result of the 70ies revolution towards safetyism and more direct democracy. When Moseses and Leavitts made all the decisions with their concentrated government OR commercial power, housing was plentiful. When FDA was approve-by-default medicine was cheap (although obviously that is not the only factor). Etc. The things on the list either just have nothing to do with living conditions or welfare state, or if they do to an extent have little to do with the "current system" EDIt: or just plain wrong; https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/top-1-percent-tax-rate/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/top-1-percent-tax...

littlestymaar 11mo ago
> 1) what is working class? Thanks, now I have no need to give you the benefit of the doubt because I know for sure that you aren't arguing in good faith. Hence I'm not going to waste any more time in this discussion.
- sershe 11mo ago
  Why is that? Definition of working class can range from near everyone with a job to a lower stratum under the middle class to even more narrowly manufacturing and similar. Nice cope out though. At least I provided some data and not just fact free vibes.
  - littlestymaar 11mo ago
    > At least I provided some data and not just fact free vibes Without realizing that the “data” contradicts your point despite only starting in the second Reagan term (hence entirely missing the point). If you want to get actual data, see Saez and Zucman.
    - sershe 11mo ago
      You didn't originally claim above the inequality is increasing. The above posts make claims - about the post war welfare state versus the current system. I provided the data going back well before Reagan to show this is simply false. Unless of course by current system you mean 3x bloated welfare state. - that working class living standards are deteriorating. You provided no data for that. That's by the way why I'm confused as to what you mean by working class, if there was some proof perhaps I could have inferred by there isn't any. Inequality apriory has nothing to do with living standards. It does have a lot to do with vibes... But still, for taxes, here's data back to 79, before Reagan. Do you have better? If not how do you know? https://www.concordcoalition.org/deep-dives/issue-brief/historical-tax-rates-the-rhetoric-and-reality-of-taxing-the-rich/ https://www.concordcoalition.org/deep-dives/issue-brief/hist... I agree wealth inequality is increasing but I don't think it's a real problem and disagree with all the rest. I wonder what percentage of wealth differential are productive or artificially scarce assets going up in price due to the money printing, eg like housing after covid binge
      - littlestymaar 11mo ago
        > I provided the data going back well before Reagan to show this is simply false. No you didn't. “Welfare state” isn't “social security paid with US debts”…
        sershe 11mo ago
        Well, what is your alternative definition of welfare state that implies it has been hollowed out versus the one before the 80ies despite massive increase in funding? You so far have provided zero data on either welfare state or living standards. Or tax burden on the rich, that has stayed stable or increased thru the main bogeyman, the 80ies top rate cuts.
        littlestymaar 11mo ago
        Maybe you should try spending a little more time reading about basic stuff (like what is “welfare state” or “working class”) before having strong opinions and waste time in internet arguments. Claiming you back your argument with data is a bit awkward when you admit don't even understand the basic concepts. But hey, you do you.

by sershe 11mo ago

littlestymaar 11mo ago

> 1) what is working class? Thanks, now I have no need to give you the benefit of the doubt because I know for sure that you aren't arguing in good faith. Hence I'm not going to waste any more time in this discussion.

sershe 11mo ago
Why is that? Definition of working class can range from near everyone with a job to a lower stratum under the middle class to even more narrowly manufacturing and similar. Nice cope out though. At least I provided some data and not just fact free vibes.
- littlestymaar 11mo ago
  > At least I provided some data and not just fact free vibes Without realizing that the “data” contradicts your point despite only starting in the second Reagan term (hence entirely missing the point). If you want to get actual data, see Saez and Zucman.
  - sershe 11mo ago
    You didn't originally claim above the inequality is increasing. The above posts make claims - about the post war welfare state versus the current system. I provided the data going back well before Reagan to show this is simply false. Unless of course by current system you mean 3x bloated welfare state. - that working class living standards are deteriorating. You provided no data for that. That's by the way why I'm confused as to what you mean by working class, if there was some proof perhaps I could have inferred by there isn't any. Inequality apriory has nothing to do with living standards. It does have a lot to do with vibes... But still, for taxes, here's data back to 79, before Reagan. Do you have better? If not how do you know? https://www.concordcoalition.org/deep-dives/issue-brief/historical-tax-rates-the-rhetoric-and-reality-of-taxing-the-rich/ https://www.concordcoalition.org/deep-dives/issue-brief/hist... I agree wealth inequality is increasing but I don't think it's a real problem and disagree with all the rest. I wonder what percentage of wealth differential are productive or artificially scarce assets going up in price due to the money printing, eg like housing after covid binge
    - littlestymaar 11mo ago
      > I provided the data going back well before Reagan to show this is simply false. No you didn't. “Welfare state” isn't “social security paid with US debts”…
      - sershe 11mo ago
        Well, what is your alternative definition of welfare state that implies it has been hollowed out versus the one before the 80ies despite massive increase in funding? You so far have provided zero data on either welfare state or living standards. Or tax burden on the rich, that has stayed stable or increased thru the main bogeyman, the 80ies top rate cuts.
        littlestymaar 11mo ago
        Maybe you should try spending a little more time reading about basic stuff (like what is “welfare state” or “working class”) before having strong opinions and waste time in internet arguments. Claiming you back your argument with data is a bit awkward when you admit don't even understand the basic concepts. But hey, you do you.