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> his goal to phase out gifted education programs Gifted education programs for kindergarten. I don't necessarily agree with that either but it's important to

> his goal to phase out gifted education programs Gifted education programs for kindergarten. I don't necessarily agree with that either but it's important to be accurate when talking about proposed policies. The man isn't talking about taking away AP algebra. Most kindergarteners still need to be told not to eat their boogers.

Aurornis 1y ago
“Phase out” means gradually remove. Kindergarten is where the phase out starts. That’s how you phase something out. You don’t take it away from everyone all at once because that triggers outrage. You disallow it for new kindergarten students one season, then next year remove it from 1st grade so they can’t go into accelerated programs and so on. He explicitly uses the phrase “phase out” for this reason. Read more of his platform documents, including the ones before everything got watered down for his website. The “it’s just for kindergarten” is just positive spin on the first step of the goal of phasing it out in general.
- triceratops 1y ago
  > Read more of his platform documents, including the ones before everything got watered down for his website Do you have links?
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    It’s been his statement all over: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/02/nyregion/mamdani-schools-gifted-and-talented-program.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/02/nyregion/mamdani-schools-... The phase out starts with kindergarten and “early grades”. In some places he’s said up through second grade which some assume is an upper limit, but really it’s just the natural length of phasing out gifted programs one year at a time over the 4-year course of a mayoral term due to the necessary delays to eliminate the program after his election date (kindergarten next school year, then 1st grade the next, then 2nd grade)
    - triceratops 1y ago
      Assuming he wants to eliminate all gifted programs because he said he wants to eliminate some of them is a type of ZDS. You also edited your earlier comment to say > You disallow it for new kindergarten students one season, then next year remove it from 1st grade so they can’t go into accelerated programs and so on I don't know how it works in NYC now, but it doesn't have to be like that. When I went to school you could always get into the gifted program at the beginning of any school year if your teacher put you up for it. You didn't have to be in the program since kindergarten.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - Aurornis 1y ago
        > I don't know how it works in NYC now, but it doesn't have to be like that. When I went to school you could always get into the gifted program at the beginning of any school year if your teacher put you up for it. You didn't have to be in the program since kindergarten. Sorry, I should have been more clear. The gifted program for kindergarten will be eliminated in the first year of the phaseout. The following year it will also be eliminated for first grade. The following year it will be eliminated for second grade as well. This is the phase out. Students who start in kindergarten next year won’t have the option of the gifted program because it will be eliminated for the following grade every year. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t get into it in Kindergarten because it won’t exist in 1st grade when they get there, and so on. It’s not “ZDS”. It’s literally what he’s said.
        triceratops 1y ago
        > and so on. Up to what grade though? The article you provided says Mamdani supports gifted programs starting in the 3rd grade. That's different from your original assertion that he's "[phasing out] gifted education programs", implying that they would end completely for everyone. My original understanding was it was kindergarten only and that was inaccurate. He's following a plan proposed by de Blasio, which I didn't know about, that's phasing it out up to the 2nd grade. Extrapolating from that to "Mamdani will remove all gifted education" is the ZDS I'm referring to. I agree with you overall about the value of gifted programs. But it's important to not spiral into hyperbole.
- Izkata 1y ago
  Also, they used to start that young. My gradeschool in the 90s would identify gifted students in kindergarten and give parents the option to move them to SWAS (school-within-a-school) starting in first grade.
riskable 1y ago
There is a well-known effect where segregating kids into gifted VS non-gifted harms the education of the non-gifted while only having a marginal impact on the gifted: https://ncrge.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/982/2019/04/The-Effects-of-Ability-Grouping-of-Gifted-Students-on-Gifted-and-Non-Gifted-Achievement-Growth.pdf https://ncrge.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/982/2019/04... Basically, non-gifted kids learn from the gifted ones. It's that whole, "positive influence from peers" thing. In the long term, having gifted programs results in a handful of accelerated students and a lot more struggling ones (at the end of mandatory education).
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > Basically, non-gifted kids learn from the gifted ones. It's that whole, "positive influence from peers" thing. In other words, let’s drag the smart students down, disallow them a better education, and instead force them to teach their peers because we don’t think their teachers are doing a good job? This is a terrible way to solve a problem.
  - jcranmer 1y ago
    Honestly, nothing has done a better job of solidifying my understanding of a material than trying to explain it to other people. We should be giving students more opportunities to do this, not less.
    - Aurornis 1y ago
      That’s fallacious. The students won’t get a chance to learn the advanced material by examining it to others because they won’t be allowed to learn the advanced material. How do people not see the harms in banning advanced classes?
      - jcranmer 1y ago
        You're presupposing that the only possible way to provide enrichment is by tracking people into advanced classes.

Aurornis 1y ago

“Phase out” means gradually remove. Kindergarten is where the phase out starts. That’s how you phase something out. You don’t take it away from everyone all at once because that triggers outrage. You disallow it for new kindergarten students one season, then next year remove it from 1st grade so they can’t go into accelerated programs and so on. He explicitly uses the phrase “phase out” for this reason. Read more of his platform documents, including the ones before everything got watered down for his website. The “it’s just for kindergarten” is just positive spin on the first step of the goal of phasing it out in general.

triceratops 1y ago
> Read more of his platform documents, including the ones before everything got watered down for his website Do you have links?
- Aurornis 1y ago
  It’s been his statement all over: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/02/nyregion/mamdani-schools-gifted-and-talented-program.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/02/nyregion/mamdani-schools-... The phase out starts with kindergarten and “early grades”. In some places he’s said up through second grade which some assume is an upper limit, but really it’s just the natural length of phasing out gifted programs one year at a time over the 4-year course of a mayoral term due to the necessary delays to eliminate the program after his election date (kindergarten next school year, then 1st grade the next, then 2nd grade)
  - triceratops 1y ago
    Assuming he wants to eliminate all gifted programs because he said he wants to eliminate some of them is a type of ZDS. You also edited your earlier comment to say > You disallow it for new kindergarten students one season, then next year remove it from 1st grade so they can’t go into accelerated programs and so on I don't know how it works in NYC now, but it doesn't have to be like that. When I went to school you could always get into the gifted program at the beginning of any school year if your teacher put you up for it. You didn't have to be in the program since kindergarten.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - Aurornis 1y ago
      > I don't know how it works in NYC now, but it doesn't have to be like that. When I went to school you could always get into the gifted program at the beginning of any school year if your teacher put you up for it. You didn't have to be in the program since kindergarten. Sorry, I should have been more clear. The gifted program for kindergarten will be eliminated in the first year of the phaseout. The following year it will also be eliminated for first grade. The following year it will be eliminated for second grade as well. This is the phase out. Students who start in kindergarten next year won’t have the option of the gifted program because it will be eliminated for the following grade every year. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t get into it in Kindergarten because it won’t exist in 1st grade when they get there, and so on. It’s not “ZDS”. It’s literally what he’s said.
      - triceratops 1y ago
        > and so on. Up to what grade though? The article you provided says Mamdani supports gifted programs starting in the 3rd grade. That's different from your original assertion that he's "[phasing out] gifted education programs", implying that they would end completely for everyone. My original understanding was it was kindergarten only and that was inaccurate. He's following a plan proposed by de Blasio, which I didn't know about, that's phasing it out up to the 2nd grade. Extrapolating from that to "Mamdani will remove all gifted education" is the ZDS I'm referring to. I agree with you overall about the value of gifted programs. But it's important to not spiral into hyperbole.
Izkata 1y ago
Also, they used to start that young. My gradeschool in the 90s would identify gifted students in kindergarten and give parents the option to move them to SWAS (school-within-a-school) starting in first grade.

riskable 1y ago

There is a well-known effect where segregating kids into gifted VS non-gifted harms the education of the non-gifted while only having a marginal impact on the gifted: https://ncrge.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/982/2019/04/The-Effects-of-Ability-Grouping-of-Gifted-Students-on-Gifted-and-Non-Gifted-Achievement-Growth.pdf https://ncrge.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/982/2019/04... Basically, non-gifted kids learn from the gifted ones. It's that whole, "positive influence from peers" thing. In the long term, having gifted programs results in a handful of accelerated students and a lot more struggling ones (at the end of mandatory education).

Aurornis 1y ago
> Basically, non-gifted kids learn from the gifted ones. It's that whole, "positive influence from peers" thing. In other words, let’s drag the smart students down, disallow them a better education, and instead force them to teach their peers because we don’t think their teachers are doing a good job? This is a terrible way to solve a problem.
- jcranmer 1y ago
  Honestly, nothing has done a better job of solidifying my understanding of a material than trying to explain it to other people. We should be giving students more opportunities to do this, not less.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    That’s fallacious. The students won’t get a chance to learn the advanced material by examining it to others because they won’t be allowed to learn the advanced material. How do people not see the harms in banning advanced classes?
    - jcranmer 1y ago
      You're presupposing that the only possible way to provide enrichment is by tracking people into advanced classes.