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That seems excessively defeatist. Just because the USA squandered its early advantage in solar tech doesn't necessarily mean that it can never hope to regain a
by roryirvine 11mo ago
That seems excessively defeatist.
Just because the USA squandered its early advantage in solar tech doesn't necessarily mean that it can never hope to regain a leading position.
Running away from the challenge now will all but guarantee defeat in the long term, so it's probably the wrong strategic decision to make.
- lm28469 11mo ago75%+ of all batteries/panels/windmill blades are made in China. And if you decide to make them locally they'll be 5-10x more expensive and much less competitive because you don't have: - super low wages and borderline slave labor - easy and cheap access to rare earth - the CCP boosting your industries to flood the world
- roryirvine 11mo agoBut what proportion of the cost of a solar panel is actually made up of rare earth minerals or labour? My understanding was that the cost of installation dominated the cost of manufacture for both wind and solar. And, sure, plenty of rare earths are needed both for the drivetrains in wind turbines, and for the power electronics used by solar farms. But they'll also be needed for the steam turbines and power electronics in nuclear plants. Seems like it's pretty much a wash to me. I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems deeply weird for America to be refusing to even try to meet the challenge.
- slaw 11mo agoChina has 26 nuclear reactors in construction. Worldwide there are 61. Let's not build nuclear reactors because China dominates industry.
- lm28469 11mo agoReading comprehension must not be your forte, or you're arguing in bad faith. American nuclear reactors aren't built with Chinese tech or by Chinese engineers as far as I can tell. If you give up your sovereignty on topics like defence, energy or agriculture don't come crying in 20 years when you're someone else's bitch. Ask German's how it's going with the cheap russian gas lmao
- slaw 11mo agoUS doesn't have any nuclear constructions. Those who built existing reactors retired or died long time ago.
- bryanlarsen 11mo agoNone of those are the reasons that Chinese solar panels are cheap. They don't use rare earths. They don't use much labor. They're cheap because they're made in massive "lights out" highly automated factories. Access to cheap capital and automation. Those are supposed to be American strengths, and China is beating America at its own game.
- tb_technical 11mo agoFrankly, the reason China is the last man standing on solar was their aggressive subsidy in the 2010s. Killed all of the American and European manufacturers, then the subsidy ended and they were the last man standing. The other things you are said are also true, I just wanted to provide a little historical context.
- bryanlarsen 11mo agoChinese subsidies were smaller than European and American subsidies on a relative basis. (but not absolute). The difference was that European and American subsidies also subsidized Chinese panels.
- tb_technical 11mo agoInterestig, so you could say that the European and American governments share blame in this development. A shame.
- bryanlarsen 11mo agoDepends what your goals are. We're sitting in a fabulous position now. Solar is by far the cheapest energy available, which is and will continue to accelerate our transition away from fossil fuels. China is essentially giving the panels away for basically no profit, and supporting very few jobs doing so. America & Europe are getting huge benefits for those subsidies.
- 11mo ago