4 ms·

Not the protocol, the group chat UX. iMessage gives kids easy access to a place where they can create groups, name them, invite and kick out other kids at will,

Not the protocol, the group chat UX. iMessage gives kids easy access to a place where they can create groups, name them, invite and kick out other kids at will, and send messages + audio/video. It's minimally different from Snap or Discord - except that those actually have parental controls, and there is no easy way to disable iMessage group chats. The equivalent is simply lacking from Android due to RCS group chat being a broken mess.

c0balt 11mo ago
I'm surprised you seem to presume that WhatsApp, Discord etc. wouldn't immediately fill the gap. At least in Berlin (School and Uni) my experience was that WhatsApp was far more prevalent already (due to more mixed Android/iOS environment likely).
- projektfu 11mo ago
  If all the "mean girls" are on iMessage, then being on Android is insulating.
  - mring33621 11mo ago
    yes. Android is "broke broke", so the cool kids won't use it Src: my 12 yo daughter
tom_alexander 11mo ago
> create groups, name them, invite and kick out other kids at will, and send messages + audio/video. All of that has been (and still is) available on everyone's phones since the dawn of time except for "name them": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service - create group: send an MMS message to whoever you want in the "group". Now you have a group chat. - invite people: send a new MMS message including all past participants and the one additional participant. - kick them out: Send a new MMS message including all past participants except for the person you want to remove. - send messages + audio/video: MMS supports all of this.
- DoctorOW 11mo ago
  > kick them out: Send a new MMS message including all past participants except for the person you want to remove. That's forming a new group. When I'm kicking people out of my group it's because I no longer want them to participate.
  - tom_alexander 11mo ago
    It's the same thing. Just like how a "cash discount" is the same thing as a "credit card surcharge", the end result is the same regardless of how you word it. Simply stop using the first group. You can even be explicit by sending a message to the first group of "I'm forming a new group without Becky because she's a loser" or you can start the new group with a message "I started this new group without Becky because she's a loser" which has the added benefit of humiliating Becky as she keeps sending messages to a group that will not respond to her.
    - carlgreene 11mo ago
      I don't know if you are purposefully being pedantic here, but they are very different things. Even as an adult who has been in several of these very active iMessage group chats with "mutual bullying", they are vastly different from any of the RCS/SMS groups I'm in due to some of the features in iMessage.
      - tom_alexander 11mo ago
        What are those features? I've never used iMessage but my ultimate point is that iMessage isn't enabling bullying, it just happens to be the platform these kids are currently using. The same bullying tactics have been possible since long before the iPhone existed. So far semi-extrinsic provided a list of features they think is uniquely enabling bullying in iMessage but I've just established those features are actually commonly available to everyone, so what other features does iMessage have that uniquely makes it enable bullying compared to MMS?
    - teach 11mo ago
prmoustache 11mo ago
how is that different than regular kids groups at school and/or in the playgrounds?
- saaaaaam 11mo ago
  It’s more insidious, and “always on”. The bullied have no respite from the bullies. As someone who was horribly bullied at school I can only imagine the horror kids face now. It’s not the technology per se, it’s the fact that society seems to think it’s not only ok but often expected for kids to have smartphones and all the digital footprint that goes along with them. I was brought up in a household where we had very limited access to TV. As a teenager I thought this was terrible. As an adult I realise what a huge benefit it was to me. I am sure that the same goes for kids and smartphones and group chats. They are not necessary. No one is missing out.
  - filoleg 11mo ago
    > The bullied have no respite from the bullies I feel like I am missing something important here. The great-grandparent comment was talking about things like not being invited/kicked out of group chats, not being spammed/harassed through the messaging protocol in question. Unless I am genuinely missing something important, I agree with the grandparent comment. How does not being invited to certain group chats is different from not being invited to "cool kids groups" at school/playgrounds? As in, how is it "always on"? Not being invited to a chat or being kicked out of a group chat isn't "always on".

c0balt 11mo ago

I'm surprised you seem to presume that WhatsApp, Discord etc. wouldn't immediately fill the gap. At least in Berlin (School and Uni) my experience was that WhatsApp was far more prevalent already (due to more mixed Android/iOS environment likely).

projektfu 11mo ago
If all the "mean girls" are on iMessage, then being on Android is insulating.
- mring33621 11mo ago
  yes. Android is "broke broke", so the cool kids won't use it Src: my 12 yo daughter

tom_alexander 11mo ago

> create groups, name them, invite and kick out other kids at will, and send messages + audio/video. All of that has been (and still is) available on everyone's phones since the dawn of time except for "name them": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service - create group: send an MMS message to whoever you want in the "group". Now you have a group chat. - invite people: send a new MMS message including all past participants and the one additional participant. - kick them out: Send a new MMS message including all past participants except for the person you want to remove. - send messages + audio/video: MMS supports all of this.

DoctorOW 11mo ago
> kick them out: Send a new MMS message including all past participants except for the person you want to remove. That's forming a new group. When I'm kicking people out of my group it's because I no longer want them to participate.
- tom_alexander 11mo ago
  It's the same thing. Just like how a "cash discount" is the same thing as a "credit card surcharge", the end result is the same regardless of how you word it. Simply stop using the first group. You can even be explicit by sending a message to the first group of "I'm forming a new group without Becky because she's a loser" or you can start the new group with a message "I started this new group without Becky because she's a loser" which has the added benefit of humiliating Becky as she keeps sending messages to a group that will not respond to her.
  - carlgreene 11mo ago
    I don't know if you are purposefully being pedantic here, but they are very different things. Even as an adult who has been in several of these very active iMessage group chats with "mutual bullying", they are vastly different from any of the RCS/SMS groups I'm in due to some of the features in iMessage.
    - tom_alexander 11mo ago
      What are those features? I've never used iMessage but my ultimate point is that iMessage isn't enabling bullying, it just happens to be the platform these kids are currently using. The same bullying tactics have been possible since long before the iPhone existed. So far semi-extrinsic provided a list of features they think is uniquely enabling bullying in iMessage but I've just established those features are actually commonly available to everyone, so what other features does iMessage have that uniquely makes it enable bullying compared to MMS?
  - teach 11mo ago

prmoustache 11mo ago

how is that different than regular kids groups at school and/or in the playgrounds?

saaaaaam 11mo ago
It’s more insidious, and “always on”. The bullied have no respite from the bullies. As someone who was horribly bullied at school I can only imagine the horror kids face now. It’s not the technology per se, it’s the fact that society seems to think it’s not only ok but often expected for kids to have smartphones and all the digital footprint that goes along with them. I was brought up in a household where we had very limited access to TV. As a teenager I thought this was terrible. As an adult I realise what a huge benefit it was to me. I am sure that the same goes for kids and smartphones and group chats. They are not necessary. No one is missing out.
- filoleg 11mo ago
  > The bullied have no respite from the bullies I feel like I am missing something important here. The great-grandparent comment was talking about things like not being invited/kicked out of group chats, not being spammed/harassed through the messaging protocol in question. Unless I am genuinely missing something important, I agree with the grandparent comment. How does not being invited to certain group chats is different from not being invited to "cool kids groups" at school/playgrounds? As in, how is it "always on"? Not being invited to a chat or being kicked out of a group chat isn't "always on".