4 ms·

I mean that I know of first hand, just the US and Japan. "Possible" being a low bar that just means that I've seen it at least once. I don't think data with al

I mean that I know of first hand, just the US and Japan. "Possible" being a low bar that just means that I've seen it at least once. I don't think data with all of those factors (household income, number of earners per household, gender of the earners, home ownership, and number of children) exists for any country. Do you have data like that for 1960s America or is your argument based on extrapolations from watching Leave it to Beaver? But if we abstract your hypothesis slightly to: fertility is lower now than in 1960 because people are less financially secure now than they were in 1960, I don't think the data we have supports this.

f1shy 11mo ago
I have seen it all across the EU. Is pretty doable (granted, you have a University title). But you can absolutely buy a home and have a couple of children which will have absolute all they need.
- zwnow 11mo ago
  Yea because the average Joe totally has a university title. However in Germany a lot of poor people have many children while a lot of academics have less [0]. It's "doable" also doesn't mean its pleasant. I have checked the rural housing market recently and for a somewhat acceptable house you will have to pay easily ~3k per month given you have a somewhat big start capital. Not sustainable if one person loses their job for a while. Not to say it was that much easier back in the day, the housing market is just beyond fucked for most ordinary people. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany
  - f1shy 11mo ago
    A decent Flat in Germany, for example near Stuttgart, with good connections with train is about 300k. There are credit lines for 25 years with relative low interest rates. For that you are way lower than 3k per month (assuming 0 downpayment). With 2 people working in a household, you can afford that. Granted, you will not be the "typical" german doing 3 times a year nice vacations. But doing a "real" 1 or 2 week vacation once every 2 years is pretty much standard outside Germany, I think.
    - zwnow 11mo ago
      I live in the middle of nowhere in Northern Germany. A house where you wont have to tear down the whole place starts at 400k. And that's a basic small sub 100m^2 house with no garden. Sorry but I wont get myself into 40 year debt for a bungalow. After my father's death we sold our old family home for ~70k€ 15 years ago. It would have been in the 300-400k range nowadays. My salary certainly did not double - triple in that time frame.
      - hello_moto 11mo ago
        Inflation and rich people buying asset class drives everything up
        zwnow 11mo ago
        Ill just live for rent and let landlords leech my hard earned money. Gives me freedom to leave whenever I feel like it... I am already 30, wont have a good start capital at 40 and I for sure wont buy a house that late in life.
        f1shy 11mo ago
        How much do you wxpend wvery year on vacation and “going out“ I know plenty of people in germany who repeat continuously that stance, and they recognize they spend well over 10k/year in vacacions.
        zwnow 11mo ago
        Ill fly to Japan next year. First foreign country vacation in 14 years. Estimated costs 3-4k. I go to concerts every few months so I spend a few hundred bucks there. Other than that most of my money goes into rent and food. I have some somewhat expensive contracts though. 50€ phone, 50€ internet. Going out is living life though, I wont reduce my quality of life for decades just so I can afford a house. But in short, I do barely spend money on vacations.

f1shy 11mo ago

I have seen it all across the EU. Is pretty doable (granted, you have a University title). But you can absolutely buy a home and have a couple of children which will have absolute all they need.

zwnow 11mo ago
Yea because the average Joe totally has a university title. However in Germany a lot of poor people have many children while a lot of academics have less [0]. It's "doable" also doesn't mean its pleasant. I have checked the rural housing market recently and for a somewhat acceptable house you will have to pay easily ~3k per month given you have a somewhat big start capital. Not sustainable if one person loses their job for a while. Not to say it was that much easier back in the day, the housing market is just beyond fucked for most ordinary people. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany
- f1shy 11mo ago
  A decent Flat in Germany, for example near Stuttgart, with good connections with train is about 300k. There are credit lines for 25 years with relative low interest rates. For that you are way lower than 3k per month (assuming 0 downpayment). With 2 people working in a household, you can afford that. Granted, you will not be the "typical" german doing 3 times a year nice vacations. But doing a "real" 1 or 2 week vacation once every 2 years is pretty much standard outside Germany, I think.
  - zwnow 11mo ago
    I live in the middle of nowhere in Northern Germany. A house where you wont have to tear down the whole place starts at 400k. And that's a basic small sub 100m^2 house with no garden. Sorry but I wont get myself into 40 year debt for a bungalow. After my father's death we sold our old family home for ~70k€ 15 years ago. It would have been in the 300-400k range nowadays. My salary certainly did not double - triple in that time frame.
    - hello_moto 11mo ago
      Inflation and rich people buying asset class drives everything up
      - zwnow 11mo ago
        Ill just live for rent and let landlords leech my hard earned money. Gives me freedom to leave whenever I feel like it... I am already 30, wont have a good start capital at 40 and I for sure wont buy a house that late in life.
        f1shy 11mo ago
        How much do you wxpend wvery year on vacation and “going out“ I know plenty of people in germany who repeat continuously that stance, and they recognize they spend well over 10k/year in vacacions.
        zwnow 11mo ago
        Ill fly to Japan next year. First foreign country vacation in 14 years. Estimated costs 3-4k. I go to concerts every few months so I spend a few hundred bucks there. Other than that most of my money goes into rent and food. I have some somewhat expensive contracts though. 50€ phone, 50€ internet. Going out is living life though, I wont reduce my quality of life for decades just so I can afford a house. But in short, I do barely spend money on vacations.