5 ms·

The agentic spam is exhausting. I just wanted to code. Too early in my career to not give a shit and retire, but too late be excited about these things and eag

by lbrito 11mo ago

The agentic spam is exhausting. I just wanted to code. Too early in my career to not give a shit and retire, but too late be excited about these things and eager to learn. What a time...

kevstev 11mo ago
I feel this. Tbh I was excited about most of the previous tech fads I have come across. Sure, people got overzealous with them and also failed to realize that what F*NG needs is not what your three person startup needs, but there were always some good and interesting ideas there. This just feels... a little too dystopian. Companies hoovered up the entirety more or less of all of our collective thoughts and writings and output and now want to sell it back to us- and I fear that cost is going to be extremely steep. It's impressive, but at the same time, just feels like its going to somehow be a net detractor to society, and yet I feel I need to keep up with each new iteration or potentially get washed over and left behind by the wave. I am somewhat fortunate to be towards the top of the pyramid and also in a position where I could theoretically ride off into the sunset, but I fear the societal implications and the pain that is going to come for vast numbers of people.
absoluteunit1 11mo ago
Same here - completely relate. One thing I’ve noticed though that actually coding (without the use of AI; maybe a bit of tab auto-complete) is that I’m actually way faster when working in my domain than I am when using AI tools. Everytime I use AI tools in my domain-expertise area, I find it ends up slowing me down. Introducing subtle bugs, me having to provide insane amount of context and details (at which point it becomes way faster to do it myself) Just code and chill man - having spent the last 6 months really trying everything (all these context engineering strategies, agents, CLAUDE.md files on every directory, et, etc). It really easy still more productive to just code yourself if you know what you’re doing. The thing I love most though - is having discussions with an LLM about an implementation, having it write some quick unit tests and performance tests for certain base cases, having it write a quick shell script, etc. things like this, it’s Amazing and makes me really enjoy programming since I save time and can focus on doing the actual fun stuff
- skydhash 11mo ago
  One of the core principles of my workflow (inspired by REPL development and some unix tools) is to start with a single file (for a function or the whole project). The I refactor the code to have a better organization and to improve reliability, especially as I'm handling more scenarios (and failure modes). LLMs are not useful in this workflow, because they are too verbose. Their answers are generic and handle scenarios you don't even support yet. What's useful is good documentation (as in truthful) and the code if it's open. This approach has worked really well in my career. It gives me KISS and YAGNI for free. And every line of code is purposeful and have a reason to be there.
- kalaksi 11mo ago
  When I'm doing the coding myself, I'm at least making steady progress and the process is predictable. With LLMs, it's a crapshoot. I have to get the AI to understand what I want and may have try again multiple times, many times never succeeding, and end up writing a lot of text anyway. And in between, I'll have to read a lot of code that probably ends up being thrown away or heavily modified. This probably depends a lot on what kind of project one is working on, though. But it's like you said, I like using LLMs for completing smaller parts or asking specific kind of help or having conversations about solutions, but for anything larger, it just feels like banging my head to a wall.
  - satvikpendem 11mo ago
    Don't use agent mode, only use ask mode. Once I did that, it works as expected. I can still code but not have to rely on the randomized nature of "vibe coding."
- blauditore 11mo ago
  Devs are starting to realize that the sweet spot for AI support in coding is on a small scale, i.e. extended code completion. Generating huge chunks of code is often not reliable enough except for some niches (such as simple greenfield projects which profit from millions of examples online).
- hawk_ 11mo ago
lm28469 11mo ago
It's never too early to retire, there are plenty of other things to work on outside of tech
- mrits 11mo ago
  The robots have that covered
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
imiric 11mo ago
> The agentic spam is exhausting. I just wanted to code. Ditto. And we still can. I've yet to use an "agent", and still use a chat UI to an LLM in Emacs. I rely on these tools for design discussion, rough prototyping, and quick reference, but they still waste my time roughly a quarter of the time I use them. They have gotten better in the last year, though, and I've been able to broaden my reach into stacks and codebases I wouldn't have felt comfortable with before, which is good. I just have no interest in "agents". I don't want to give these companies more access to my system and data, and I want to review every thing these tools generate. If this makes me slower than a vibe coder, that's intentional. Thankfully, there are still sane people and companies willing to pay me for this type of work, so I'm not worried about being displaced any time soon. Once that happens, I'll probably close up shop, figure out an alternative income stream, and continue coding as a hobby.
dyauspitr 11mo ago
You might as well be saying you want to make physical architecture draft drawings.
- hollowturtle 11mo ago
  Wrong. Continuing with the architect metaphor, he doesn't understandably want to delegate digital draft drawings to a non predictable statical tool ridden with idiosyncracies and biases based off mostly on poor open source training data and write some dumb architect.md to try steer the will of the tool. He wants to design and do it better with some highly integrated hidden ai. So far whenever I heard product x says that has AI, most of the time is a product with zero real integration and just a chatbot in a separate window
hollowturtle 11mo ago
Turn off the noise, just keep coding and get better at it, go all-in with the fundamentals it will pay off over time. You can leverage autocomplete to go as fast as you can, don't waste your time writing md files, most of the world still does hand coding, sure with some ai assistance, but without totally ceding control. They want you to believe the contrary to keep the bubble inflating or to sell you some ai courses where you spend hundreds of dollars for "learning" how to please a statical tool into doing what you want to do, spoiler alert it eventually won't and steer away in unpredictable ways
stack_framer 11mo ago
Wow, this sums up exactly how I feel. The very last thing I want is to be "elevated to a manager of agents," as they so smugly say in the video.
egorfine 11mo ago
> The agentic spam is exhausting. I just wanted to code. Ability to code within an IDE will not make shareholders happy while shoving AI down developers' throats most definitely will.
fusslo 11mo ago
I've been thinking a lot about John Henry since this AI stuff has started

by lbrito 11mo ago

The agentic spam is exhausting. I just wanted to code. Too early in my career to not give a shit and retire, but too late be excited about these things and eager to learn. What a time...

kevstev 11mo ago

I feel this. Tbh I was excited about most of the previous tech fads I have come across. Sure, people got overzealous with them and also failed to realize that what F*NG needs is not what your three person startup needs, but there were always some good and interesting ideas there. This just feels... a little too dystopian. Companies hoovered up the entirety more or less of all of our collective thoughts and writings and output and now want to sell it back to us- and I fear that cost is going to be extremely steep. It's impressive, but at the same time, just feels like its going to somehow be a net detractor to society, and yet I feel I need to keep up with each new iteration or potentially get washed over and left behind by the wave. I am somewhat fortunate to be towards the top of the pyramid and also in a position where I could theoretically ride off into the sunset, but I fear the societal implications and the pain that is going to come for vast numbers of people.

absoluteunit1 11mo ago

Same here - completely relate. One thing I’ve noticed though that actually coding (without the use of AI; maybe a bit of tab auto-complete) is that I’m actually way faster when working in my domain than I am when using AI tools. Everytime I use AI tools in my domain-expertise area, I find it ends up slowing me down. Introducing subtle bugs, me having to provide insane amount of context and details (at which point it becomes way faster to do it myself) Just code and chill man - having spent the last 6 months really trying everything (all these context engineering strategies, agents, CLAUDE.md files on every directory, et, etc). It really easy still more productive to just code yourself if you know what you’re doing. The thing I love most though - is having discussions with an LLM about an implementation, having it write some quick unit tests and performance tests for certain base cases, having it write a quick shell script, etc. things like this, it’s Amazing and makes me really enjoy programming since I save time and can focus on doing the actual fun stuff

skydhash 11mo ago
One of the core principles of my workflow (inspired by REPL development and some unix tools) is to start with a single file (for a function or the whole project). The I refactor the code to have a better organization and to improve reliability, especially as I'm handling more scenarios (and failure modes). LLMs are not useful in this workflow, because they are too verbose. Their answers are generic and handle scenarios you don't even support yet. What's useful is good documentation (as in truthful) and the code if it's open. This approach has worked really well in my career. It gives me KISS and YAGNI for free. And every line of code is purposeful and have a reason to be there.
kalaksi 11mo ago
When I'm doing the coding myself, I'm at least making steady progress and the process is predictable. With LLMs, it's a crapshoot. I have to get the AI to understand what I want and may have try again multiple times, many times never succeeding, and end up writing a lot of text anyway. And in between, I'll have to read a lot of code that probably ends up being thrown away or heavily modified. This probably depends a lot on what kind of project one is working on, though. But it's like you said, I like using LLMs for completing smaller parts or asking specific kind of help or having conversations about solutions, but for anything larger, it just feels like banging my head to a wall.
- satvikpendem 11mo ago
  Don't use agent mode, only use ask mode. Once I did that, it works as expected. I can still code but not have to rely on the randomized nature of "vibe coding."
blauditore 11mo ago
Devs are starting to realize that the sweet spot for AI support in coding is on a small scale, i.e. extended code completion. Generating huge chunks of code is often not reliable enough except for some niches (such as simple greenfield projects which profit from millions of examples online).
hawk_ 11mo ago

lm28469 11mo ago

It's never too early to retire, there are plenty of other things to work on outside of tech

mrits 11mo ago
The robots have that covered
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

imiric 11mo ago

> The agentic spam is exhausting. I just wanted to code. Ditto. And we still can. I've yet to use an "agent", and still use a chat UI to an LLM in Emacs. I rely on these tools for design discussion, rough prototyping, and quick reference, but they still waste my time roughly a quarter of the time I use them. They have gotten better in the last year, though, and I've been able to broaden my reach into stacks and codebases I wouldn't have felt comfortable with before, which is good. I just have no interest in "agents". I don't want to give these companies more access to my system and data, and I want to review every thing these tools generate. If this makes me slower than a vibe coder, that's intentional. Thankfully, there are still sane people and companies willing to pay me for this type of work, so I'm not worried about being displaced any time soon. Once that happens, I'll probably close up shop, figure out an alternative income stream, and continue coding as a hobby.

dyauspitr 11mo ago

You might as well be saying you want to make physical architecture draft drawings.

hollowturtle 11mo ago
Wrong. Continuing with the architect metaphor, he doesn't understandably want to delegate digital draft drawings to a non predictable statical tool ridden with idiosyncracies and biases based off mostly on poor open source training data and write some dumb architect.md to try steer the will of the tool. He wants to design and do it better with some highly integrated hidden ai. So far whenever I heard product x says that has AI, most of the time is a product with zero real integration and just a chatbot in a separate window

hollowturtle 11mo ago

Turn off the noise, just keep coding and get better at it, go all-in with the fundamentals it will pay off over time. You can leverage autocomplete to go as fast as you can, don't waste your time writing md files, most of the world still does hand coding, sure with some ai assistance, but without totally ceding control. They want you to believe the contrary to keep the bubble inflating or to sell you some ai courses where you spend hundreds of dollars for "learning" how to please a statical tool into doing what you want to do, spoiler alert it eventually won't and steer away in unpredictable ways

stack_framer 11mo ago

Wow, this sums up exactly how I feel. The very last thing I want is to be "elevated to a manager of agents," as they so smugly say in the video.

egorfine 11mo ago

> The agentic spam is exhausting. I just wanted to code. Ability to code within an IDE will not make shareholders happy while shoving AI down developers' throats most definitely will.

fusslo 11mo ago

I've been thinking a lot about John Henry since this AI stuff has started