4 ms·

>I'd argue that it is nonsense to treat symptoms instead of the cause (of an issue) , but actually doing just that is quite intellectual when a bunch of money s

by alterom 11mo ago

>I'd argue that it is nonsense to treat symptoms instead of the cause (of an issue) , but actually doing just that is quite intellectual when a bunch of money stands to be made What specifically are you talking about here? It appears to me that your comment is an expression of vibe with zero information content. There's no dichotomy between treating symptoms and cause even when the cause is treatable (which isn't the case with ADHD; it's a neurotype, with differences showing on brain scan levels) — and that's setting aside the discussion of whether it's something we need to "treat" in the first place. We still have painkillers for people who need them while they are getting treatment. We still have meds for runny noses, we still have Tylenol for fever, even though these are merely symptoms. We still have pills for allergies. And on that note: the symptoms (such as fever and allergic reactions) can and do kill people. Please reconsider your comment.

Aeglaecia 11mo ago
[flagged]
- alterom 11mo ago
  So, instead of reading what I wrote, you choose to remain willfully ignorant. I am not responding further for your sake, but for the sake of those who read this thread. > taking speed makes anyone more productive, not just those with adhd. Speed (methamphetamine) has the same relationship to Adderall (dextroamphetamines) as methanol does to ethanol; a difference in methyl group. Ethanol (aka alcohol) is commonly used for recreational purposes. If you think Adderall is the same thing as "speed", I hope you wouldn't mind drinking a glass of methanol to prove the point that chemically similar substances have similar effects. > modern western society exhibits a plethora of conditions that are likely to result in the manifestation of adhd behaviours in non adhd individuals Which is why the diagnostic criteria for ADHD require a lifelong manifestation of ADHD symptoms. Notice how you say behaviors, not symptoms or traits, i.e. how people act, and not how they feel, which difficulties they face, what cost they bear, and so on. The behavior of an ADHD individual might be no different from one without ADHD. We can be on time, for example. It is just immensely more difficult for us, just like it's difficult for someone with a broken leg that didn't quite heal to walk. And yes, anyone can bump their toe on a table leg and experience pain for a while. That doesn't mean that people with broken legs don't exist. >a brain scan is not part of the diagnostic criteria for labelling adhd. It isn't, because we have cheaper and more reliable ways. The difference is there though. > you would have to provide a convincing argument that doping up the populace is objectively the best path forward - to me it seems that this is not the best path forward, rather one that serves to minimize societal friction. Believing that "doping up the populace" is what's taking place is a delusion that I can't address in the same way that I can't address the belief that the Loch Ness monster caused the 2019 Coronavirus pandemic. Unfortunately, your worldview seem to be as strongly detached from reality as you are convinced about the veracity of your unshakable beliefs. But again, if you sincerely believe people taking Adderall are taking speed, you really could save a lot on booze by drinking methanol instead. Do let us know how that goes.
  - Aeglaecia 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - throwuxiytayq 11mo ago
      You settle down, ok?
    - alterom 11mo ago
      >youre very close to freeing yourself but the speed has an iron grip on your thoughts , i wish you all the best and hope that things may settle down Oh my. I was going to ask if you've drank a glass of methanol to argue that Adderall and speed the same thing, as I suggested... but judging my the content of your comments, you might have had more than one already.
      - Aeglaecia 11mo ago
        we could choose to produce an environment that handles normal human behaviour , but instead we label normal human behaviour as dissonant , its an idea so simple yet one so violently opposed , such violence only spurs me on to champion the idea
        alterom 11mo ago
        You know, I'm with you on that one, actually. ADHD behavior is normal human behavior, because we're all human. And indeed, some quite reasonable accommodations and changes in the way the society functions and forms expectations of ourselves and others would go a long way towards making ADHD folks living fulfilling lives without pain. All that said, executive dysfunction is still a thing, and ADHD folks routinely find themselves struggling with their own goals and lives, apart from the society and its expectations. Technology can and does help a lot (electric kettles that turn themselves off, washer-dryer combo machines that don't require remembering to take clothes out, etc). But then there are still things that I struggle with on my own, like wanting to send postcards to friends and taking literal years to get to it. I really can't blame it on the society. That's where the meds can make a big difference in one's life. In some ways, ADHD is an advantage. We fare better than others in emergencies. Hyperfocus is an asset. Having a million hobbies is a plus. But in other ways, it's something that makes us need support. The meds are one of the ways the society accommodates us and gives us that support.
- protocolture 11mo ago
  >modern western society exhibits a plethora of conditions that are likely to result in the manifestation of adhd behaviours in non adhd individuals Maybe. >a brain scan is not part of the diagnostic criteria for labelling adhd Correct. >taking speed makes anyone more productive, not just those with adhd We arent talking about productivity gains. >for me to reconsider my comment you would have to provide a convincing argument that doping up the populace is objectively the best path forward "Doping up" is intentionally emotive language and a misrepresentation. >to me it seems that this is not the best path forward, rather one that serves to minimize societal friction You dont even clearly state your complaint. Its about patient outcomes, not "society" but you are implying they are also a social good. Great. The best path forward is to reduce the severity of peoples illnesses. These drugs, reduce the severity of peoples illnesses. People with these illnesses, have a better life due to the medication. Why that upsets you is a deeply internal problem to you, not a problem with society or medicine.
  - Aeglaecia 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - protocolture 11mo ago
      youre very close to freeing yourself but the stupid has an iron grip on your thoughts , i wish you all the best and hope that things may settle down
      - Aeglaecia 11mo ago
        by all means keep jacking up the vitriol , it makes things even funnier when im the one who ends up getting censored
        protocolture 11mo ago
        >censored Well it would be a net social good. But I expect I will see a different account with vastly the same posting style back here next time ADHD comes up, spewing the same nonsense.
- jdub 11mo ago
  Correctly prescribed stimulants aren't "doping up the populace", and ADHD existed long before it was described.

by alterom 11mo ago

Aeglaecia 11mo ago

[flagged]

alterom 11mo ago
So, instead of reading what I wrote, you choose to remain willfully ignorant. I am not responding further for your sake, but for the sake of those who read this thread. > taking speed makes anyone more productive, not just those with adhd. Speed (methamphetamine) has the same relationship to Adderall (dextroamphetamines) as methanol does to ethanol; a difference in methyl group. Ethanol (aka alcohol) is commonly used for recreational purposes. If you think Adderall is the same thing as "speed", I hope you wouldn't mind drinking a glass of methanol to prove the point that chemically similar substances have similar effects. > modern western society exhibits a plethora of conditions that are likely to result in the manifestation of adhd behaviours in non adhd individuals Which is why the diagnostic criteria for ADHD require a lifelong manifestation of ADHD symptoms. Notice how you say behaviors, not symptoms or traits, i.e. how people act, and not how they feel, which difficulties they face, what cost they bear, and so on. The behavior of an ADHD individual might be no different from one without ADHD. We can be on time, for example. It is just immensely more difficult for us, just like it's difficult for someone with a broken leg that didn't quite heal to walk. And yes, anyone can bump their toe on a table leg and experience pain for a while. That doesn't mean that people with broken legs don't exist. >a brain scan is not part of the diagnostic criteria for labelling adhd. It isn't, because we have cheaper and more reliable ways. The difference is there though. > you would have to provide a convincing argument that doping up the populace is objectively the best path forward - to me it seems that this is not the best path forward, rather one that serves to minimize societal friction. Believing that "doping up the populace" is what's taking place is a delusion that I can't address in the same way that I can't address the belief that the Loch Ness monster caused the 2019 Coronavirus pandemic. Unfortunately, your worldview seem to be as strongly detached from reality as you are convinced about the veracity of your unshakable beliefs. But again, if you sincerely believe people taking Adderall are taking speed, you really could save a lot on booze by drinking methanol instead. Do let us know how that goes.
- Aeglaecia 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - throwuxiytayq 11mo ago
    You settle down, ok?
  - alterom 11mo ago
    >youre very close to freeing yourself but the speed has an iron grip on your thoughts , i wish you all the best and hope that things may settle down Oh my. I was going to ask if you've drank a glass of methanol to argue that Adderall and speed the same thing, as I suggested... but judging my the content of your comments, you might have had more than one already.
    - Aeglaecia 11mo ago
      we could choose to produce an environment that handles normal human behaviour , but instead we label normal human behaviour as dissonant , its an idea so simple yet one so violently opposed , such violence only spurs me on to champion the idea
      - alterom 11mo ago
        You know, I'm with you on that one, actually. ADHD behavior is normal human behavior, because we're all human. And indeed, some quite reasonable accommodations and changes in the way the society functions and forms expectations of ourselves and others would go a long way towards making ADHD folks living fulfilling lives without pain. All that said, executive dysfunction is still a thing, and ADHD folks routinely find themselves struggling with their own goals and lives, apart from the society and its expectations. Technology can and does help a lot (electric kettles that turn themselves off, washer-dryer combo machines that don't require remembering to take clothes out, etc). But then there are still things that I struggle with on my own, like wanting to send postcards to friends and taking literal years to get to it. I really can't blame it on the society. That's where the meds can make a big difference in one's life. In some ways, ADHD is an advantage. We fare better than others in emergencies. Hyperfocus is an asset. Having a million hobbies is a plus. But in other ways, it's something that makes us need support. The meds are one of the ways the society accommodates us and gives us that support.
protocolture 11mo ago
>modern western society exhibits a plethora of conditions that are likely to result in the manifestation of adhd behaviours in non adhd individuals Maybe. >a brain scan is not part of the diagnostic criteria for labelling adhd Correct. >taking speed makes anyone more productive, not just those with adhd We arent talking about productivity gains. >for me to reconsider my comment you would have to provide a convincing argument that doping up the populace is objectively the best path forward "Doping up" is intentionally emotive language and a misrepresentation. >to me it seems that this is not the best path forward, rather one that serves to minimize societal friction You dont even clearly state your complaint. Its about patient outcomes, not "society" but you are implying they are also a social good. Great. The best path forward is to reduce the severity of peoples illnesses. These drugs, reduce the severity of peoples illnesses. People with these illnesses, have a better life due to the medication. Why that upsets you is a deeply internal problem to you, not a problem with society or medicine.
- Aeglaecia 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - protocolture 11mo ago
    youre very close to freeing yourself but the stupid has an iron grip on your thoughts , i wish you all the best and hope that things may settle down
    - Aeglaecia 11mo ago
      by all means keep jacking up the vitriol , it makes things even funnier when im the one who ends up getting censored
      - protocolture 11mo ago
        >censored Well it would be a net social good. But I expect I will see a different account with vastly the same posting style back here next time ADHD comes up, spewing the same nonsense.
jdub 11mo ago
Correctly prescribed stimulants aren't "doping up the populace", and ADHD existed long before it was described.