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It's long, but I listened to this podcast a while back with Peter Attia and Trenna Sutcliffe discussing Autism, ADHD, and Anxiety, and found that it really redu

It's long, but I listened to this podcast a while back with Peter Attia and Trenna Sutcliffe discussing Autism, ADHD, and Anxiety, and found that it really reduced the stigma I associated with medication for treatment of ADHD. In particular, understanding the risks of not effectively treating ADHD, in comparison with with the potential risks/benefits of the medication. That's not to say that we should only rely on medication - behavioral therapy (with parents involved too) should also play a part. https://peterattiamd.com/trennasutcliffe/ https://peterattiamd.com/trennasutcliffe/

alterom 11mo ago
Therapy, and most of all, understanding how our brains work make all the difference in the world. It's like realizing that the reason you've been getting stuck in the mud is not that you're a bad driver. It's just that people who don't are driving 4x4 trucks, and you've had a Nissan Z series sports car. Turns out, farms and off-road are simply not the right environment for your vehicle, and when that environment has some accomodations, like the paved surface of a highway or a race track, you're literally running circles around people in the most common vehicles. One profound effect of taking Adderall was feeling the clarity to understand that difference, and seeing the road instead of the endless mud fields in front of me. It does help to get things done, but around 30% of ADHD'ers aren't responsive to it. Understanding that you're getting stuck because your brain wasn't meant for that kind of driving, however, is universally useful. That's why I made that ADHD wiki [1], and keep posting links to it. It's an compilation of information that has helped me tremendously to understand the above; and I know this resource was helpful to others too in their journeys. My perspective is that of a late-diagnosed adult who's been completely unaware of what ADHD is, and thought that they can't possibly have an attention deficit because to get anything done, they have to hyperfocus on it. Again, learning that hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD and understanding how it works)l had a profound impact. And medication helped with that too: it's easier to not get stuck hyperfocused on the wrong thing with Adderall. Getting Adderall was like spraying WD-40 into rusty steering components. The immediate effect is that I can go where I want to go to, not the random direction my vehicle happens to face. The long-term effect though was understanding what makes it difficult to steer, and how to maintain it better. And even if I don't have power steering all the time like everyone else, I'm still better off with that experience. My point here that it's never about medication VERSUS therapy and knowledge. Medication is not an alternative, it's a BOOSTER. When it works, it's just dropping the difficulty from Nightmare to Medium/Hard. It doesn't play the game for you. The said, I'm very much happy the Nightmare mode days are behind me, and I'm very sad that the only reason I've been living my life that way is stigma and lack of information. When I took Adderall, I unexpectedly had to grieve the future I'll never get to have after being held back by all the pain I've been needlessly subjected to over the preceding three decades. That grief, too, is a common experience in ADHD late-diagnosed adults. Thank you for sharing that link, and contributing to the discussion and awareness <3 [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd https://romankogan.net/adhd
- luckydata 11mo ago
  I'm sorry but therapy does NOTHING for ADHD. I wish it did, it would be very useful to me, but it's just not the case.
  - zinodaur 11mo ago
    I'm sorry that has been your experience, but I have had very different experiences - I'd encourage you to give it another shot, there is a lot left on the table for you
    - alfiedotwtf 11mo ago
      I felt that it was useless too.. You’re probably better off reading Getting Things Done. The only things I’ve foung that actually works, is a daily combo of Vyvanse and dexis
    - boat-of-theseus 11mo ago
      [dead]
  - skywhopper 11mo ago
    There may be multiple types of “therapy” being mixed up here. I think it’s important to accept that therapy is never going to “fix” the differences in brain function that folks with ADHD experience. Any attempt at behavioral therapy to “fix” an ADHD brain will fail. But talk therapy can help some folks come to accept the differences that their ADHD means in terms of how to relate to other people or to better understand why how ADHD impacts their own behavior and self-perception. I myself have found it’s much easier and happier to shape my life around my particular ADHD than trying to change my behavior (something that’s destined to fail and only compound the negative emotions associated with ADHD).
  - alterom 11mo ago
    > I'm sorry but therapy does NOTHING for ADHD. I wish it did, it would be very useful to me, but it's just not the case. The therapist that worked for me practiced ACT, and was more close to coaching when it came to ADHD. Therapists are living databases of solutions to certain kinds of problems that people have. Problems caused by ADHD certainly belong to that category, and if your therapist is specializing in that area, they can save you a lot of time and effort by suggesting approaches that you'd otherwise have to figure out on your own. Finding such a therapist is, unfortunately, a bit like winning a lottery that most people in the US wouldn't have the resources to play.
hombre_fatal 11mo ago
You could draw a parallel with GLP-1 agonists: people like to grandstand about how you shouldn't need it and how it's somehow cheating. As if it's not addressing a condition that people are suffering from right now, today. The stigma also seems to accidentally admit that things like executive function and food noise aren't equally distributed, thus some people could benefit from intervention. For example, if you've never been fat or you never binge eat or you've never procrastinated 15min of homework until 2am despite, then you're missing the irony when your solution for people who deal with these things is to try harder and to jump through hoops that you don't need to.
- kbos87 11mo ago
  This is an excellent parallel.
luckydata 11mo ago
Behavioral therapy is only needed to make people feel better about taking amphetamines. It takes only a very cursory review of published reputable papers to realize there's nothing behavioral therapy can do to improve ADHD because as Russell Barkley says ADHD is a disability of doing, not knowing what to do.
- freetime2 11mo ago
  If medication alone has worked for you, that's great! But I don't think your opinion matches the medical consensus. > For children with ADHD younger than 6 years of age, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recommends parent training in behavior management as the first line of treatment, before medication is tried. > For children 6 years of age and older, the recommendations include medication and behavior therapy together—parent training in behavior management for children up to age 12 and other types of behavior therapy and training for adolescents. Schools can be part of the treatment as well. AAP recommendations also include adding behavioral classroom intervention and school supports. [1] [1] https://www.cdc.gov/adhd/treatment/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/adhd/treatment/index.html
  - skywhopper 11mo ago
    This makes sense for very young children, for various reasons, mainly that it’s hard or impossible to diagnose ADHD with reliability at such a young age, and because medication is hard to dose properly to a rapidly growing child. But these recommendations are honestly more about helping the parents cope than about treating the child’s ADHD. Behavioral therapy is more about learning how to fit in than addressing the actual problems (which are often exacerbated by the inevitable failure of such behavioral treatment and its corresponding expectations in folks with genuine ADHD).
    - boat-of-theseus 11mo ago
      [dead]
- wisty 11mo ago

alterom 11mo ago

Therapy, and most of all, understanding how our brains work make all the difference in the world. It's like realizing that the reason you've been getting stuck in the mud is not that you're a bad driver. It's just that people who don't are driving 4x4 trucks, and you've had a Nissan Z series sports car. Turns out, farms and off-road are simply not the right environment for your vehicle, and when that environment has some accomodations, like the paved surface of a highway or a race track, you're literally running circles around people in the most common vehicles. One profound effect of taking Adderall was feeling the clarity to understand that difference, and seeing the road instead of the endless mud fields in front of me. It does help to get things done, but around 30% of ADHD'ers aren't responsive to it. Understanding that you're getting stuck because your brain wasn't meant for that kind of driving, however, is universally useful. That's why I made that ADHD wiki [1], and keep posting links to it. It's an compilation of information that has helped me tremendously to understand the above; and I know this resource was helpful to others too in their journeys. My perspective is that of a late-diagnosed adult who's been completely unaware of what ADHD is, and thought that they can't possibly have an attention deficit because to get anything done, they have to hyperfocus on it. Again, learning that hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD and understanding how it works)l had a profound impact. And medication helped with that too: it's easier to not get stuck hyperfocused on the wrong thing with Adderall. Getting Adderall was like spraying WD-40 into rusty steering components. The immediate effect is that I can go where I want to go to, not the random direction my vehicle happens to face. The long-term effect though was understanding what makes it difficult to steer, and how to maintain it better. And even if I don't have power steering all the time like everyone else, I'm still better off with that experience. My point here that it's never about medication VERSUS therapy and knowledge. Medication is not an alternative, it's a BOOSTER. When it works, it's just dropping the difficulty from Nightmare to Medium/Hard. It doesn't play the game for you. The said, I'm very much happy the Nightmare mode days are behind me, and I'm very sad that the only reason I've been living my life that way is stigma and lack of information. When I took Adderall, I unexpectedly had to grieve the future I'll never get to have after being held back by all the pain I've been needlessly subjected to over the preceding three decades. That grief, too, is a common experience in ADHD late-diagnosed adults. Thank you for sharing that link, and contributing to the discussion and awareness <3 [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd https://romankogan.net/adhd

luckydata 11mo ago
I'm sorry but therapy does NOTHING for ADHD. I wish it did, it would be very useful to me, but it's just not the case.
- zinodaur 11mo ago
  I'm sorry that has been your experience, but I have had very different experiences - I'd encourage you to give it another shot, there is a lot left on the table for you
  - alfiedotwtf 11mo ago
    I felt that it was useless too.. You’re probably better off reading Getting Things Done. The only things I’ve foung that actually works, is a daily combo of Vyvanse and dexis
  - boat-of-theseus 11mo ago
    [dead]
- skywhopper 11mo ago
  There may be multiple types of “therapy” being mixed up here. I think it’s important to accept that therapy is never going to “fix” the differences in brain function that folks with ADHD experience. Any attempt at behavioral therapy to “fix” an ADHD brain will fail. But talk therapy can help some folks come to accept the differences that their ADHD means in terms of how to relate to other people or to better understand why how ADHD impacts their own behavior and self-perception. I myself have found it’s much easier and happier to shape my life around my particular ADHD than trying to change my behavior (something that’s destined to fail and only compound the negative emotions associated with ADHD).
- alterom 11mo ago
  > I'm sorry but therapy does NOTHING for ADHD. I wish it did, it would be very useful to me, but it's just not the case. The therapist that worked for me practiced ACT, and was more close to coaching when it came to ADHD. Therapists are living databases of solutions to certain kinds of problems that people have. Problems caused by ADHD certainly belong to that category, and if your therapist is specializing in that area, they can save you a lot of time and effort by suggesting approaches that you'd otherwise have to figure out on your own. Finding such a therapist is, unfortunately, a bit like winning a lottery that most people in the US wouldn't have the resources to play.

hombre_fatal 11mo ago

You could draw a parallel with GLP-1 agonists: people like to grandstand about how you shouldn't need it and how it's somehow cheating. As if it's not addressing a condition that people are suffering from right now, today. The stigma also seems to accidentally admit that things like executive function and food noise aren't equally distributed, thus some people could benefit from intervention. For example, if you've never been fat or you never binge eat or you've never procrastinated 15min of homework until 2am despite, then you're missing the irony when your solution for people who deal with these things is to try harder and to jump through hoops that you don't need to.

kbos87 11mo ago
This is an excellent parallel.

luckydata 11mo ago

Behavioral therapy is only needed to make people feel better about taking amphetamines. It takes only a very cursory review of published reputable papers to realize there's nothing behavioral therapy can do to improve ADHD because as Russell Barkley says ADHD is a disability of doing, not knowing what to do.

freetime2 11mo ago
If medication alone has worked for you, that's great! But I don't think your opinion matches the medical consensus. > For children with ADHD younger than 6 years of age, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recommends parent training in behavior management as the first line of treatment, before medication is tried. > For children 6 years of age and older, the recommendations include medication and behavior therapy together—parent training in behavior management for children up to age 12 and other types of behavior therapy and training for adolescents. Schools can be part of the treatment as well. AAP recommendations also include adding behavioral classroom intervention and school supports. [1] [1] https://www.cdc.gov/adhd/treatment/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/adhd/treatment/index.html
- skywhopper 11mo ago
  This makes sense for very young children, for various reasons, mainly that it’s hard or impossible to diagnose ADHD with reliability at such a young age, and because medication is hard to dose properly to a rapidly growing child. But these recommendations are honestly more about helping the parents cope than about treating the child’s ADHD. Behavioral therapy is more about learning how to fit in than addressing the actual problems (which are often exacerbated by the inevitable failure of such behavioral treatment and its corresponding expectations in folks with genuine ADHD).
  - boat-of-theseus 11mo ago
    [dead]
wisty 11mo ago